To step in to "help" a piss-poor manager for the sake of other staff?

[workwoes123]

Having an ongoing difficult time at work. We are a small organisation, 25 employees. Our current head manager has a lot of experience in the field but came in with very little management training or skills. This is causing a lot of problems for staff - planning and communication are very poor, we are very reactive, it's extremely stressful. I've come in at a very lowly level (I took the job as a part-time, temporary one that works well around children / school times - it has become a permanent job) and while I don't have much experience in this field I have worked in a number of policy / planning roles in the past with some really good managers. So I can see what he 'should' be doing, and isn't. And since DH also works there, I see at first hand just how much the piss-poor planning and communication impacting on the other staff.

I tend to want to step in where I can and use my experience and skills (which are way beyond my current role / paygrade) to ameliorate the situation. Putting in place some systems / processes etc to improve planning and communication etc. I really want to improve things for the other staff and maybe - ideally - educate the manager a bit in how things can be done differently, leading by example, I guess.

My more senior colleague is really against me doing this. She takes the view that it's his mess to sort out, and if we keep stepping in and helping him he'll just keep on being shit. She would rather see this all come to a head and him either resign or be forced to take on training to become a better manager. But that means standing back and not trying to make anything better for staff like my DH and watching them all struggle on! It's really hard.

What do you think? Do I need to stop enabling the rubbish boss? Or should I keep leading from the bottom and trying to make things better for my colleagues?

YABU - let things fall apart and put them back together, even if it is awful for your colleagues along the way.
YANBU - keep doing what you can to improve the situation.

I’d just draw attention to his failings with senior management but professionally.

I wouldn’t step in where I wasn’t asked and I was so junior.

I would however offer to assist when talking to senior management.

It's frustrating but it's not your job, you wont be thanked for it. If all the staff feel this way then the deputy or next in line needs to speak to the manager, is there a need office or area manager. Is the manager aware there are problems, do you hold staff meetings.

I suppose it depends on whether you think he's open to accepting advice and will actually change based on it. Your senior colleague thinks he won't change.

You shouldn't be doing his job for him if he's just going to take advantage.

I agree with your colleague - don't get involved.

I think its good to try and give ideas to the manager and guide a little but only for a very short period and to see if things get better

You're senior colleague is right. You can't run around doing other people's jobs for them.

Today's favour can become tomorrow's obligation and you won't be thanked for it in the long run.

*your

Senior colleague is right. Don't be the "glue". You won't get thanked or promoted for it and it will just paper over the fact that he's not doing a good job.

Let the balls drop, and then apply for his job if it becomes vacant!

Nope I used to work in an organisation in my 20 where the women late 50s/60s all ran around covering for two men in there 40s (we were all at roughly the same level, though in several different roles and none managed these guys.) the woman have all now retired and the management has changed and now it’s become evident from what I hear from the people who still work there that these guys have had a hell of a shock when they were actually expected to do their jobs.

My advice would be speak to management and offer to help but ask to be paid suitably for it.

@Xiaoxiong

Senior colleague is right. Don't be the "glue". You won't get thanked or promoted for it and it will just paper over the fact that he's not doing a good job.

Let the balls drop, and then apply for his job if it becomes vacant!

I agree with this. And check/brush up on your skills to improve promotability.

Bugger, that's a bit unanimous. When I went into this it was off the back of years of DH stressing about his workplace, and I guess I hoped that I could get some of the things changed for the benefit of all staff (some things have worked). But you are all right. I have tried for a year or so and it just doesn't stick because the manager just doesn't get it at all. Not at a level where it really makes much lasting difference. I'm not very good at standing back and letting things go to shit. My senior colleague thinks he is incapable of change - he's in his mid 60s, never done any management training, unlikely to do so now. Our managing board are aware of his limitations to an extent and it is slowly coming to a head.

I'm going to have to sit on my hands, aren't I? And live with DH going through all this?

Looking for different jobs is not an option atm - we are overseas, bit stuck where we are for now.

If the senior staff and the managing Board are aware and allowing it to continue that is their loss and their responsibility to manage. The company will suffer, they will lose good staff and money.

I'm going to have to sit on my hands, aren't I? And live with DH going through all this?

Well yes You’re junior and it’s not your place.

The only time I did something was when working for a manufacturing company failing it’s customers when I was mid 20’s. I went and saw the MD and basically told him that if I were a customer I’d be going elsewhere. This put a rocket up their backside and all of a sudden they (finally) started logging/ tracking shortages and goods delivered late, damaged etc. I’d been tasked to sort out a whole bunch of systems including sorting out the complaints, which had been logged for 3 months and just ignored. I was horrified.

After I sorted this all out, I didn’t have much of a job. Or not a challenging one so I then put a business case for a much needed role. They made the right noise then did nothing. Soon after I left, they created the role for someone else.

All this to say, you are unlikely to be thanked. I was verbally. But not in my pay packet or in progression. This was a dinosaur male dominated company, who thought women should work in customer services or sorting out the shit (like I was).

A definite no from me. We had a manager, exact same situation. Area Manager hired them and thought sun shone out of their a*. Upshot was, I helped with one thing got shot down in flames for it. Other people basically did manager's work, while they sailed about the place doing sod all and Area Manager (who seemed to have no idea how useless this person was) still singing praises of useless manager. Meanwhile manager still drawing their nice salary, while everyone else doing their work. Nice if you can get it.

It's a not-for-profit in the education field. So customers / losses etc not really a consideration as such (and most of the 'customers' are huge fans of the manager as he has been there for so long). The organisation is very female dominated, but yes the manager is male and those of us running around after him are female.

There is little scope for promotion and my being 'junior" isn't really the issue (though it gives me a screen to hide behind if I'm not going to catch these balls any more). The managing board have asked me to take on projects way above my role as well, because I'm there, I have the skills and they need it done - and it's good to keep in with them. There is no clear structure / strict roles / managerial hierarchy as such, and it's very much that roles are adjusted to fit the people doing them. The organisation has had to grow considerably over the last few years, but still has the fairly informal, chaotic, reactive, all muck-in together to get the job done, approach that they've had in the past. It's another thing that the current piss-poor manager doesn't know how to address.

He is the 'senior management' - only the managing board (of volunteers) above him. It's coming to a head, my stepping in - however well intentioned - is just delaying the inevitable. I see that now.

No many years ago I had an idiot like this brought in over my head who it soon transpired was hopeless. He expected to delegate his workload to me and I already had more than enough of my own so I had to say no. Of course the poor quality of his work soon became obvious (I may have said something to his manager) and he left suddenly soon after.

Don't help him, if he's no good, senior people need to work that out for themselves.

Dont run around after him, just so the job you have been asked to do, when it all goes to shit then the Board will need to step up. Covering up for poor managers doesnt solve the issue, like you say it just delays the inevitable and if the Board were that bothered they would have taken steps by now to help him improve or find someone else.

Tread carefully, OP, or you’ll come across as a busybody, and capable women who take on tasks that ultimately show up the person they are trying to help often end up taking the fallout.
My DSis is like that: she has been hounded out of several positions because management (mainly men) don’t like the idea of losing face because they have been seen as not having sorted the problem themselves.

I voted YABU but not because I think you're too junior or a busybody, but to make the system work it has to fail in the place where the problem is. If you keep stepping in then you work around the shit part and it never gets addressed or fixed.
If you are able to flag up where the problem is and suggest solutions then great, but draw the line at doing the workaround yourself, otherwise things will never improve.
Good luck

Decide on one issue that would make the biggest difference. Email shite manager with vague details of a solution and ask if you can run with it. Shite manager should not get territorial as you asking their permission cos you've let them know you think they're so important and wise and busy. Then when they says yes, you forward on that email thread on to a member of board of volunteers with some experience in this issue asking for their advice on your more detailed solution and reasons (shite management) there is a problem in the first place.

Thus the board are made aware of the issue caused by shite manager and that you are the one solving it.

Once you have opened a correspondence with board, you bring up other problems and solutions and possibly of promotion etc.

Office politics depends sneaky methods. :)