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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Greed of ‘buy to let’

961 replies

LittleLottieChaos · 28/04/2021 07:34

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 28/04/2021 22:50

Migrants and refugees are often exploited by slum landlords. Illegal beds in sheds, etc.

What was wrong was to increase the population at the same time as reducing the supply of secure affordable housing.

FleetwoodRaincoat · 28/04/2021 22:51

I had money to invest and the thought of making 0.1 per cent in the bank didn't appeal.

So I bought a flat, made it nice and I rent it out for a modest rent. I probably make a profit of about 3 per cent. I see it as being a good and fair landlord, I don't want to be rich and I don't want to rip anyone off. My tenant is happy, and I make a small profit. I'm sorry if it's depriving someone of a flat to buy, but I think the fact that we no longer have council houses is more to blame.

Keepitonthedownlow · 28/04/2021 22:53

@FleetwoodRaincoat et al. Utterly selfish.

PurpleRainDancer · 28/04/2021 22:56

@ForgedInFire

My landlord owns over 100 properties and he doesn't even live in this country for most of the year. I think its terrible. Something should be done but it won't. Either stop BTL mortgages or make them very difficult to obtain.
So why don't you rent from another Landlord?

Or is the whole point there isn't a surfeit of rental property available?

People need accommodation, therefore Private Landlords will always be required as there are never enough housing association properties available.

Keepitonthedownlow · 28/04/2021 22:59

Any landlord who owns 2+ properties should be subject to the same scrutiny as Registered Social Landlords.

Keepitonthedownlow · 28/04/2021 23:00

I'd support the young people to rise up and reclaim their rentals as their own.

Tealightsandd · 28/04/2021 23:02

@Keepitonthedownlow

I'd support the young people to rise up and reclaim their rentals as their own.
It's not just young people. The fastest growing group of private renters is those 40+.
Guavafish · 28/04/2021 23:04

Tory

Zenithbear · 28/04/2021 23:06

Since interest rates went down to almost nothing on savings. If I could get 4 or 5% on a savings account I would put my money in that instead of looking for another rental property to let out.
But 0.4% isn't good enough.
The rental market is strong because lots of people want to rent.
People who don't want to rent and want to buy will do what they need to do to achieve that or they will do nothing about it and whinge and blame everyone else instead.

rejectedcarrit · 28/04/2021 23:09

I rent out my old home. I had to move for work and even though it's been a while I've hung on to my original home as I've never let go emotionally and always think I'll get back there someday.

As a result of Covid my tenant stopped paying rent. They finally left just before I would have been able to get to court to evict them. They owe me many thousand of pounds in unpaid rent which I don't think I will ever see. They left the place in a complete state. It was full of rubbish and the kitchen was just...disgusting. Lots of things missing, the sofa, the washing machine, light fittings etc. I hired a cleaning firm to come in as I was overwhelmed. The first firm actually walked away from the job saying they wouldn't do it and the second lot felt sorry for me and pitched in. It will cost me a fortune to reinstate the property to how it was when I let it out. I rented out a home and was handed back a hovel.

I was renting out at around £200 per month under market rent. I'm a responsive landlord, I want the property maintained - see it as my home. I do all the legal stuff. Due to tax changes I really don't make much at all on it and will be definitely be in debt this year. I have to install a new kitchen and completely redecorate and re-lay floors.

I might be 'greedy' by having that second property but as I see it I am providing a service to others. I try to be fair and to be a good landlord. But I run the risk of the above. It's not all sitting back and counting the cash for landlords.

Keepitonthedownlow · 28/04/2021 23:15

Tiny violins for all those not making a suitable return on their cash... why can't you invest in a pension or business, just lazy and immoral to buy a flat and then watch some poor sod slog their guts to pay your mortgage/pension.

Doris86 · 28/04/2021 23:18

@Movinghouseatlast

The real.problem is the selling off of council housing by Thatcher.
It’s a crazy policy. Selling off social housing at a huge discount to tenants, who then sell on and pocket a huge profit.

Something like a third of ex council properties now in the hand of private landlords, and a severe shortage of social housing.

purpleme12 · 28/04/2021 23:18

I would have thought it was normal to redecorate when a tenant's been there a while

LadyWhistledownsQuill · 28/04/2021 23:20

@Anonmousse

I havent RTFT but can I ask what the posters who think everyone should only own 1 house, think people who are living somewhere short term should live? Eg- students People leaving their parents home People moving to a new area but unsure of preferred areas People on temporary/6 months contracts People whose own house is having renovations/is uninhabitable

Also re holiday homes - which are ethical? Is a hotel ok? What about a caravan?

Btw I dont have a btl or holiday home.

Those are people for whom the private rental market tends to work relatively well - in full time work, young, don't mind the instability, no kids, no pets, no disability requiring adaptations...

It's everyone else who I worry about. Simply by means of inheriting a dog - though nothing else changed at the same time - I went from being someone who could pick and choose where I live to someone who has to be grateful for whatever damp shithole I can find to rent. That was despite being (last time I was househunting) working full time in a well paid job (significantly above national average), always paying the rent on time and the dog being thoroughly house trained, non-destructive and non-barky.

Every time my tenancy comes up for renewal, I hold my breath and fear eviction, as I know that the risk of not being able to find a new tenancy is real, as is the consequential risk of street homelessness.

I don't think everyone should only own one house - for some people private rental is the best available solution - but for a great many others we're only private renting because it's our only option. Those are the people who need better help and protection from the law.

I would favour much greater regulation with regards to discrimination - for instance, if a home has 2+ bedrooms then they shouldn't be able to refuse to let to tenants with kids. If the home has a garden they shouldn't be able to refuse to let to dog / cat owners. If the tenant signs up to a tenancy of 1 year + then they have to allow disability adaptations. Etc., etc.

Oh, and anyone who paints over the damp before renting out a property should be strung up by their testicles in the town centre Grin

The current rules where LLs must give 6 months notice to evict a tenant is one of the few good things to come out of the pandemic - if you're someone who finds it harder to rent then you've got much more chance of finding somewhere.

I'd also favour a massive expansion in social housing - because the current situation where the government is paying out housing benefit to landlords is madness. They could spend less money in the medium-long term building / buying new social housing and have an asset to show for it at the end. At the moment it's just a never-ending spend, straight from public coffers to the pockets of private landlords.

As the OBR says
"We expect overall housing benefit spending in 2018-19 to total £23.4 billion, with 4.6 million recipients paid an average of £5,035 each. That would represent 2.9 per cent of total public spending and 1.1 per cent of national income."
obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/welfare-spending-housing-benefit/

Hotels and caravans are ethical - they do not displace permanent local residents - but holiday homes (and worse, second homes that spend the majority of the year uninhabited so don't even contribute to tourism) are not ethical for that very same reason.

dotdashdashdash · 28/04/2021 23:21

just lazy and immoral to buy a flat and then watch some poor sod slog their guts to pay your mortgage/pension.

Because if the landlord didn't own it they'd magically get a deposit together and be eligible for a mortgage?

I can rent a house I'd never in a million years be able to afford.

purpleme12 · 28/04/2021 23:25

@LadyWhistledownsQuill I so agree
Agree about all the people who find it hard to rent. The worry about being given notice and losing the pets who are your life
I absolutely think that there should be more than 2 months notice in normal times

Keepitonthedownlow · 28/04/2021 23:32

@dotdashdashdash a hell of a lot more would be able to, especially if second Home ownership was taxed out of existence. Almost every is more expensive to rent than the mortgage payment, deposits used be to only 5% and their can be guaranteed.

Zenithbear · 28/04/2021 23:59

We allow pets and dc in ours.
Never put the rent up until a tenant leaves.
Allow them to decorate.
Very happy to let ours long term.
Keep them in excellent condition.

Keepitonthedownlow I suspect you enjoy pouting about life being so unfair.
Not really lazy. Having both worked full time for over 30 years and now part time, never claimed a penny in benefits, tried to save and invest as much as possible for the future. So going to be retiring early soon partly possible with 3 rental incomes and making no apologies.

Tealightsandd · 29/04/2021 00:03

@Zenithbear

Since interest rates went down to almost nothing on savings. If I could get 4 or 5% on a savings account I would put my money in that instead of looking for another rental property to let out. But 0.4% isn't good enough. The rental market is strong because lots of people want to rent. People who don't want to rent and want to buy will do what they need to do to achieve that or they will do nothing about it and whinge and blame everyone else instead.
There's always going to be a need for lower waged jobs. And, the disabled and ill can't do a Lourdes style recovery.

@LadyWhistledownsQuill.
I agree with everything you've written.

Zenithbear · 29/04/2021 00:22

Tealightsandd
Your post makes me want to shout "Bingo!"

Keepitonthedownlow · 29/04/2021 00:59

Nope @zenithbear I don't routinely like to focus on life being unfair. I work and have many own business. However I would rather create value than parasite off of others.

Lostatsea1988 · 29/04/2021 01:49

Your narrative regarding tenants is patronising in the extreme OP.

I'm both a landlord and a tenant. My first long term tenant moved in as a single mum after her divorce, having sold the family home. She moved out of my flat after 4 years to buy a house with her new partner.

A family then moved in who are Indian expats. They own a house in Bangalore which they rent out but they're not in a position to buy until they get PR.

My other property is let to a family who moved out of the flat they owned in zone 2 because it was far too small for them (2 kids) but they can't currently sell and move up the ladder because they can't get the post Grenfell fire safety paperwork they need for buyers. They are happily renting my 3 bed house with garden while renting their smaller more central flat to a junior doctor.

I'm living overseas and happily renting while we explore whether we can to (and can) settle here full time.

Bore off with your narratives about exploitation and parasitical practices. Renting suits me and my tenants just fine for various reasons. None of us are downtrodden or weeping into our gruel.

Maggiesfarm · 29/04/2021 02:27

@Keepitonthedownlow

Nope *@zenithbear* I don't routinely like to focus on life being unfair. I work and have many own business. However I would rather create value than parasite off of others.
:-)
supermoonrising · 29/04/2021 03:19

Britain likes selfishness, which is why it usually votes conservative and is an awful country to rent in. I guess some people just accept reality and try to profit from it. Though incidentally, a sensible and consistent investment in the stock market almost always pays a better return over a period of X decades than property in the UK, once all fees/taxes have been accounted for.

supermoonrising · 29/04/2021 03:37

If I invested money in the bank I would get very little interest.
Stocks?
www.woodruff-fp.co.uk/property-vs-investment-portfolios/