To ask .. in the most genuine way .. what is actually the point of sex ? Trigger warning re abuse.

[Lateroflower]

I cannot post in the sex section as am new to mumsnet.
I was abused as a child and feel really awkward during sex and avoid it. I dont like it in that , although it gives a physical response, I feel shame and embarassment and it just seems a silly thing to do.
I have had years of councelling .. I have explored the abuse and related factors for the last 20 years on and off.
My dh says its about intimacy. I get that from being cared about. I really think its just pleasure and animal and he should be honest if it is that. He has looked at porn in the past which suggests that it is not about intimacy to me but just a release. I feel like I literally dont understand what it is for and I feel that everyone else knows !.eg if my dh suggested sex , attracrive as he is , my response can be oh no .. but am ok if and when I gwt into it.

Please please dont suggest more therapy .
I feel lost . I dont as a grown woman understand why sex equals intimacy when other things like holding hands feels way more intimate.

I don’t feel that bothered by sex either to be honest. So I’m not sure I’m very much help. Just wanted to say that I also feel that way (I have no experienced of SA).

I think your feelings are natural given what you have been through.

This is purely my point of view, everyone feels differently and has different experiences, even where there has been no abuse...people have differing sex drives for example and they're not always compatible with their OHs, and it can come and go.

For me,

It is about intimacy like your DH says. Without it I feel like we're just in a friendship - sex is the difference for me.

It's fun, we don't take it seriously at all and we laugh a lot.

It gives us time to reconnect. We turn off the TV and concentrate on each other. I enjoy the passion and the feelings of lust and getting carried away.

It makes me feel good about myself - even when I am feeling fat and frumpy, my DP still finds me sexy and desirable and that's a turn on for me, it makes me feel more confident.

And above all, I find a good orgasm and immense stress reliever! It relaxes me, and I sleep really well afterwards!

Again, I stress, that's just me. You asked what it's for - and those are my reasons.

Your feelings are understandable given your past.

However, for me, sex is about intimacy. We don’t have sex with anyone else (and neither of us ever have), and it’s a safe space for us to explore our kinks and fantasies together.

It’s just between us. Nobody else ever intrudes, no one else ever sees, it’s just the two of us lost in each other. It’s the most intimate act there is.

I've never really been able to get over how embarrassing and ridiculous the whole thing is. No idea why, no history of abuse etc. It's just such a weird thing to do!

God, this is a tricky one. My first reaction is, sex is good! It feels good, feels wonderful and close, and I really just enjoy it.

The fact that you do enjoy sex with your partner when you get going, suggests that there's nothing actually wrong, you just have different levels of sex drive. If you love your partner and he loves you, and you can cope with the different levels of wanting sex,then you maybe just need to accept that its a thing that other people enjoy, you don't but can tolerate.

FWIW, I once went to a model tank show with my DP. There seemed very little point to it. But I love him and want him to be happy, so I went to the model show for him.

it's the desire to orgasm that drives people.to have sex. purely and simply. "Intimacy" is really.a veneer that covers the drive to cum. And I totally agree with you. It's a very animal act, that a partner doesn't actually really "need" their partner for - because they'll do it with the next partner and the next and the next. because they have lust and a desire to orgasm. Or they'll just pleasure themselves. People need to feel "loved", but under that is the drive to orgasm.

FWIW, I once went to a model tank show with my DP. There seemed very little point to it. But I love him and want him to be happy, so I went to the model show for him

sadly, we're called prostitutes though if we say that in regards to see with partners:(

You are just asexual. Specifically sex repulsed asexual.

It's very common, but can be tricky to navigate in a relationship with someone who is sexual.

The person who is sexual can feel like a sex pest, and the asexual person can feel resentful at "having" to do this pointless thing.

Do you feel it's a challenge in your marriage?

Sex for me is about enjoyment. It’s pleasurable. Fun.
It is also about intimacy, in the sense that I don’t do it with anyone else except DH. I hug other people, I hold hands with my children... sex is something that’s just for us.

Whether related to the abuse you suffered or not, it sounds like you might fall somewhere on the asexuality spectrum.

It’s not unusual for asexual people to have sex with their partners, nor for them to enjoy it - or enjoy that their partner enjoys it etc...

There are a lot of people who aren’t interested in sex for whatever reason - it does not mean there’s something wrong with you. You’re not broken.

Maybe do some research into asexuality and similar, see if you recognise any of it in yourself, it’d be very easy to find people who feels similarly to yourself online if that’s something you’d like to do.

it's the desire to orgasm that drives people.to have sex. purely and simply. "Intimacy" is really.a veneer that covers the drive to cum. And I totally agree with you. It's a very animal act, that a partner doesn't actually really "need" their partner for - because they'll do it with the next partner and the next and the next. because they have lust and a desire to orgasm. Or they'll just pleasure themselves. People need to feel "loved", but under that is the drive to orgasm.

It might be for you but it's not for me. Masturbation doesn't replace partnered sex. It does involve intimacy - being naked in front of someone, letting them know your desires and turn-ons, letting them see your sex face and see you when you're not really in control of yourself, and in the case of a woman letting a man inside your body when he could use that to hurt you, involves deep trust.

It makes me feel alive and relaxed and healthy and content and it keeps me connected to the reality of my body. I wouldn't get a lot of those things from masturbation, or from a one night stand.

A lot of people enjoy it. It can be a very enjoyable thing when done right.

But that doesn’t mean everyone enjoys it, for a variety of reasons. Some people I think are genuinely asexual.

The issue is if it’s causing fractions between yourself and your other half because of mismatched desires. If that’s the case I’d suggest posting in the relationship section. That’s tough to work through.

For me its a physical need. A strong desire for sexual pleasure. I enjoy it immensely and always have. I like to be adventurous and very naughty. In my first year of university I had a relationship with another woman , altho I had never been attracted to women before or since. It was just her and sex played a big part in that relationship. It’s also the difference between being in a meaningful relationship, otherwise you may as well live an amiable friend. There’s also the birds and the bees regarding children. For me , although not the absolute be all and end all , it is important. Let me put it this way. I wouldn’t stay in a sexless marriage. But it’s also personally and private. I don’t share my toys.

Sex is about physical pleasure, there's nothing wrong with that.

He probably says 'intimacy' because he thinks that's what he's supposed to say.

I don't really 'get' intimacy, I have no need for it at all.

@YouJustDoYou it's the desire to orgasm that drives people.to have sex. purely and simply that’s simply not true, I like many women don’t orgasm through penetrative sex. I want to be intimate with my husband. I do orgasm in other ways with my husband but that is much less important to me.
I don’t understand why people have sex with anyone who isn’t their spouse/long term partner.

Sex is (for me) about physical pleasure and excitement, but also intimacy (with DH). We feel closer together after sex than we do after a cuddle.

I think therapy would be really good for you, but I understand that given your history it might be painful. I'm so sorry you were abused as a child, I hope the fucker that did it never has a happy day for the rest of his life.

I never feel closer or more in love with my husband than after we have had sex and are lying in each others arms. It must be the oxytocin but I just love it. I usually orgasm but if we have a quickie in the middle of the day and I can't be bothered it still feels lovely and intimate. I would struggle to stay in a sexless marriage.

I am so sorry for what happened to you and think you sound really brave and strong to have tackled it the way you have.

For me and it is just me, it is intimate because it’s the one thing I do only with DP, it involves trust, it is the ultimate physical contact as he’s inside me. I love the pleasure I get and give to him, the orgasms, yes that is a huge part of it obviously.

We’re vulnerable, seeing and experiencing each other in a way no one else does, it’s a chance for us to prioritise ourselves as a couple and it’s fun! It’s undignified, it’s definitely frank and frequently inelegant but oh lord it’s so joyous. I feel so connected when I look at him after we’ve had sex. Often we both just start grinning and giggling looking at each other as we catch our breath. It grounds us, we’re stronger together because we have that sexual connection.

I hope you can maybe accept that your DH feels a bit like that because he hasn’t had the experiences you have? It isn’t just the pleasure of orgasm for a lot of people or we’d be quite happy with a sure thing wank and he sounds like he values that connection with you.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with you.

I like sex with DH because it makes me feel good. I think you're right in that it is more carnal than intimate. I feel much more intimate with him when we cuddle on the sofa or he strokes my hair or pulls me on for a hug just because he wants to have me close.

Acceptance, trust, warmth, love, letting go, touch, possibly the complete surrender to the feelings of approaching orgasm heightened by the sharing, giving and receiving of pleasure. And all that lovely oxytocin to strengthen emotional bonds.

Anybody can hold a hand. Any vibrator can achieve a mechanical orgasm. But only sex with somebody who loves you and you love can provide both total physical and emotional satisfaction, IMO.

That's the intimacy he's referring to. He's not wanting a scratch for an itch, he's wanting to feel like you aren't vaguely disgusted by him or find what he has a normal human desire to do is all a bit icky and you're only subjecting yourself to it because you feel like you have to, really. And if you have said to him that he should be honest that he just wants his pleasure and you'd rather hold his hand than do that, then to some extent, he is also likely feeling that you also see him as an abuser.

You really would benefit from better therapy than you've had before. After all, why should some vile individual who molested you have the power to take away your enjoyment of what is a natural part of human relationships for the rest of your life? Or perhaps you'd be better off breaking up so he can find somebody else who is able to provide the sort of relationship he wants once he's got over the loss?

You may be asexual as well as being abused. Neither are your fault in the slightest. But if a partner wants a different relationship to the one you are prepared or able to give them, then it would be for the best to end it if you do not wish to actually change anything.

NeverDropYourMoonCup ,
Why should Op lose a man she cares about and who seems to care for her, due to this problem . It sounds like she has lost a lot already. ..then for him to leave for sex with a yet unknown person ? Heartbreaking. I understand it is difficult for the Dh .

I think it's evident from the responses on this thread that there's no right or wrong way to feel about this. Some people associate sex with intimacy, for some it's functional and purely about having their physical needs met. Some consider it vitally important to the health of their relationship and their own well-being and others don't really see the point. All perfectly valid viewpoints but I can see how it could cause problems if two people in a relationship have very different views on the importance of sex.

OP, I was also sexually abused as a child. There are times when I feel completely okay and then there are other times when being touched, even by my own children, makes me flinch. I think it's something that never really leaves you. In spite of this, I definitely feel closer to DH and happier in myself when we're having sex regularly. We've gone through phases where sex has been infrequent (due to exhaustion from small children, illness etc) and I've definitely felt less connected to him during those times. Yes, you can still be intimate in other ways but as others have pointed out, sex is the only thing that distinguishes my relationship with DH from all my other relationships. I trust him completely, before him I could never orgasm with a partner because I couldn't relax enough to let go. When I had sex with DH for the first time I thought "oh, so this is what all the fuss is about! I get it now!" Not just because it felt good, but because I felt safe with him in a way I hadn't with other men. So for me, there's something healing about it I suppose.

@Tiddleypoms

NeverDropYourMoonCup , Why should Op lose a man she cares about and who seems to care for her, due to this problem . It sounds like she has lost a lot already. ..then for him to leave for sex with a yet unknown person ? Heartbreaking. I understand it is difficult for the Dh .

True, but why should he lose something that is an inherent need/desire for the majority of the human population and he craves because of something somebody else did to her decades ago? And that was probably pleasing to the abuser to think about, ie, that they'd have such an effect upon the rest of her life and relationships?

It's not fair on either of them.

He's not saying 'I want more sex, you must put out more', he's admitting to vulnerability by saying he craves intimacy - the emotional component of human sexual behaviour. And no amount of handholding or watching pornography can replace that for him.

I will say that I have experienced abuse in my past. DP was very reluctant to touch me at all after I finally told him because he was scared I'd feel he was abusing me/being unreasonable and demanding. But I refuse to have the bastard scum who abused me take that side of me away. I 'switched off' from the abuser and what the enormity of what he was doing at the time as a survival mechanism. Not from my body, though, but from the act of being abused. That was something many things done to me then. Not now. Then is a million miles away from what I do with somebody I love and trust and loves and trusts me. I couldn't consent or refuse back then. I can consent now - and I do, happily. I'm not ashamed of something that wasn't ever my fault and don't blame myself or hold myself responsible in any way for anything that happened - including the occasional physical reaction that I experienced completely involuntarily.

I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. It's difficult to find the right words to explain the chasm between the two circumstances and I am aware 'that was then, this is now' could sound a trite phrase - but, to me, it does sum up how I feel.

I also went through childhood SA as a child. I really struggle with the idea of sexual intimacy because it’s triggering and feels unsafe. My DH understands why I’m like this, and accepts it, though this is also because we have two adopted DDs of 12 and 9, plus DD1 has SEN and by the time she’s in bed we’re too knackered to do anything other than go to sleep.

I do have sexual desires, though, and would like to have a healthy sexual relationship with my DH. I just have real difficulty seeing sex as part of a loving relationship and not of domination and abuse.

I was able to cope with sex earlier in our relationship and when we were TTC. But the memories came flooding back when our DDs were small and I haven’t found a way to get past that. Hopefully that will change, we were talking about having couples sexual therapy but it hasn’t happened (due to lockdown and me having Long Covid).

So I have no real advice, sadly, as I’m in a similar situation, though I actually would like to find a way of having a sexual relationship with my DH. We do have some intimacy, as in kisses and cuddles but nothing more than that.