AIBU to worry about Roblox and safeguarding?

[Grimbelina]

I don't know if anyone else has read the article below but I have a child who has just discovered Roblox and I am trying to understand how a 15 year old knows they are playing with a 6 year old. Here's a quote from the article:

“It’s a free game, you download it in 30 seconds and you’re playing against six-year-olds,” one 15-year-old trans player said.

Does this mean they are chatting with them? That the 6 year old is telling them they are 6?

Another worrying quote from the person heading up their safeguarding:

"...since we have this community of young players just starting out their journey online, we also want to go beyond safety and actually give them some life skills as they are growing up, through promotional campaigns and by highlighting different voices in the Roblox community."

What are these life skills? What is going 'beyond safety'?

www.theguardian.com/games/2021/apr/24/in-the-game-i-knew-myself-as-hannah-the-trans-gamers-finding-freedom-on-roblox

*someone at school talk about a new cool game they have found.

The chat function can be turned off I think. It’s pretty easy to put restrictions on I believe. So fine if supervised, monitored and settings checked regularly 😊

@InglouriousBasterd

We got rid of Robox several years ago after a horrible incident. DD (Aged about 7 at the time) was allowed a group chat with her school friends but didn’t realise that one of them had added another, a stranger, who listened to their chat and then threatened to come to their school and hurt them and their families. DD hasn’t wanted to touch it since, and the school went through all their accounts to check the security settings.

There's no voice /audio on roblox so do you mean he read their chat?

As others have said, turn off chat and only school friends allowed on friends list. Plus check they stick to it and limit time.

Horrifying that that article casually mentions that Discord is a good way to get round the chat filters in Roblox
Extremely irresponsible

It seems to me that a better analogy is taking your kids to a big theme park where there are lots of exciting forests areas, but where the management happily admit there are an unspecified number of sexual predators hiding in the trees. And then sending your kids off to have fun, but giving them a few tips to stay safe around strangers and saying "don't forget, if you see an odd man hiding behind a bush, be sure to run and tell Mummy!"

And turning the chat off is like going to the theme park and saying, "well, because we know there are child molesters in here, you can only go where I can see you." But you're still giving the theme park your money, keeping it in business and buying the ice-creams; and if someone else's kid gets molested in the bushes, surely that's their problem for not having kept a good enough watch.

Seems to me that if this was a theme park, people would be calling for the molesters to be removed, the theme park to be shut down and the owners to be held legally accountable. They wouldn't be saying "but they do have so much fun in there if you keep an eye on them, it helps them develop skills, and when they're older you can let them go a little bit into the bushes on their own and learn how to protect themselves, because it's important to prepare them for how to deal with sexual molesters out there in world."

Life is all about risk assessment and teaching children how to navigate the world safely.
My 6yo plays Roblox. He is supervised and we have parental controls. We have regular chats about being safe online and what to do when something is wrong.

The game annoys me but it was such a help for him during lockdown, as he could zoom chat his group of friends while they all played in the same game.

I don't feel that it is a good idea to completely ban things because I want him to learn how to play safely from a young age.

I play Roblox with my DS. The public chat is almost unusable you can type the odd word at best. It's obvious that most of the players are young from the way they behave in game you don't need to ask anyone to know their age. There's a game called Adopt Me that we play a lot and you can choose to be a baby or a parent and I think you could get some weirdos on there enjoying the baby experience but it wouldn't impact the children playing. The main risk is other players trying to scam you out of your skins and the game currency which is pretty frequent but maybe it's not a bad lesson to learn. It's pretty well monitored though and you can report anyone who is scamming. I've never seen any inappropriate chat, unless you count "babies" saying things like "feed me mummy" which is context appropriate but probably some dodgy bloke in some case - but you'd be booted pretty quick for grooming behaviour I reckon. I play all the games DS plays with him and we talk about other players' behaviour and how hard the games market to players and to stay safe.

@stackthecats

It seems to me that a better analogy is taking your kids to a big theme park where there are lots of exciting forests areas, but where the management happily admit there are an unspecified number of sexual predators hiding in the trees. And then sending your kids off to have fun, but giving them a few tips to stay safe around strangers and saying "don't forget, if you see an odd man hiding behind a bush, be sure to run and tell Mummy!"

And turning the chat off is like going to the theme park and saying, "well, because we know there are child molesters in here, you can only go where I can see you." But you're still giving the theme park your money, keeping it in business and buying the ice-creams; and if someone else's kid gets molested in the bushes, surely that's their problem for not having kept a good enough watch.

Seems to me that if this was a theme park, people would be calling for the molesters to be removed, the theme park to be shut down and the owners to be held legally accountable. They wouldn't be saying "but they do have so much fun in there if you keep an eye on them, it helps them develop skills, and when they're older you can let them go a little bit into the bushes on their own and learn how to protect themselves, because it's important to prepare them for how to deal with sexual molesters out there in world."

Your analogy is good but you're talking rubbish.

Yes a theme park is a good analogy. On Any day at any theme park there are pedophiles ,child abusers ,rapists etc around, either on their own, with their family ,with mates.

The park knows that, the police know that, park users know that. There doesn't have to be any big announcement. Remove them? How? Do you think they wear a badge? A mark on their forehead? Request a DBS check in entry?

Same online. We know this shit happens . On every online platform that offers the ability to interact with others. Now for safety some might decide to never allow their kids on any of them ever. Fair enough. Some decide instead to let their kids explore and familiarise themselves with this platforms and the online world under supervision and in a safe way.
Some are completely ignorant and unaware of the dangers and give their kids free reign.

Just like in a theme park. Or park. Or playground.

Accidentallyonpurpose is it rubbish? Or is it just that people don't want to face up to their complicity in allowing commercial companies to make money out of gaming because it's just easier to allow their kids to play on it?

Maybe you're just justifying the fact that online gaming allows unscrupulous companies unfettered access to kids and we pretend this is okay because people enjoy the games. A theme park is a commercial enterprise on private land which is making a profit. An online gaming platform is a commercial company - you are using the platform but they own it. They aren't a public playground and the games aren't developed just to selflessly give kids some fun.

And even if you went to a public playground you'd expect someone was responsible for making sure the equipment was safe and you'd want to be suing someone if your kid got seriously injured. In the end, you're just advocating for commercialism and profit at the expense of some children's safety, just because some people enjoy the facilities. That's fine, it's your right to believe that individualism and money-seeking should trump collective safety and wellbeing - we live under a Tory government after all. But don't kid yourself that you're not privileging people's right to make money over everything else.

Not to mention that accepting that the predators are always going to be out there and it's parents' responsibility to teach kids how to navigate them sounds rather a lot like accepting that sexual predators are always going to be out there, so teach your daughters how to avoid being killed walking home.

"The park knows that, the police know that, park users know that. There doesn't have to be any big announcement. Remove them? How? Do you think they wear a badge? A mark on their forehead? Request a DBS check in entry?"

That sounds a lot like since it's difficult to address this, just keep safe kids! And girls, don't wear a short skirt and make sure you're never out at night, because there's nothing we can do to prevent the predators so let's not bother.

@stackthecats I take it you've never been to a theme park then?
Or family resort?
Or a fair?
Or an arcade at the beach?

Or you know bought or did anything that promotes consumerism over safety. Like clothes,gadgets etc.

What about paedos at McDonalds or in big toys shops like Smyths or Toys R Us when they were around?

Oh I'm sure you'd never go there either.

It's a really irresponsible article because it promotes the idea that interaction between children and strangers is completely fine - it's completely uncritical of the safeguarding risks.

Our children are growing up in a different environment to us, I don't think you can hide behind being scared of these platforms forever, you need to put your big parenting pants on and start talking to your kids and teaching them to be open with you and safe online (and offline).

Start now, because if you're scared of this, how are you going to handle discussions about sex, consent etc? It'll come up eventually whether you like it or not.

That's not to say you can't make a choice about what they do play on, but I'm stuck on this idea that you're scared or apprehensive about something when you need to be the parent here.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@stackthecats I take it you've never been to a theme park then?
Or family resort?
Or a fair?
Or an arcade at the beach?

Or you know bought or did anything that promotes consumerism over safety. Like clothes,gadgets etc.

What about paedos at McDonalds or in big toys shops like Smyths or Toys R Us when they were around?

Oh I'm sure you'd never go there either.[/quote]
Accidentally on purpose - I think that if I went to Alton Towers and the management said "yeah we all know that the paedos hide in those bushes over there, the police won't do anything so just tell your kids to keep safe", I'd probably leave, and not go back until they'd cut down the bushes.I might want to make quite a fuss about how the company knowingly allowed a risk of criminal activity on their site and didn't do enough to prevent it. I wouldn't shrug my shoulders and say "well as long as my kids are okay, it's other parents' business if their kids get molested, what are you gonna do? Teaches them life skills."

@InglouriousBasterd

We got rid of Robox several years ago after a horrible incident. DD (Aged about 7 at the time) was allowed a group chat with her school friends but didn’t realise that one of them had added another, a stranger, who listened to their chat and then threatened to come to their school and hurt them and their families. DD hasn’t wanted to touch it since, and the school went through all their accounts to check the security settings.

Sometimes similar happened to my DD. She followed all my rules and was careful but I think one of her friends was less so and the friend received hundreds of abusive and upsetting messages which seemed to come from people they knew. I suspect some kind of nasty prank. The kids were all really upset and DD deleted Roblox immediately and without being asked and has not used it since.

@Febo24

Our children are growing up in a different environment to us, I don't think you can hide behind being scared of these platforms forever, you need to put your big parenting pants on and start talking to your kids and teaching them to be open with you and safe online (and offline).

Start now, because if you're scared of this, how are you going to handle discussions about sex, consent etc? It'll come up eventually whether you like it or not.

That's not to say you can't make a choice about what they do play on, but I'm stuck on this idea that you're scared or apprehensive about something when you need to be the parent here.

Hey, I'm not sure you're getting the objection here, Ms "big girl parenting pants". We are not scared of online platforms. We're angry that commercial companies knowingly allow significant risk of harm on their platforms specifically designed to attract children", with halfhearted or minimal efforts to prevent it, all for purely commercial benefit; and then both they and* a lot of people who are complicit in ignoring this pretend that this is just an unavoidable facet of the modern world. It's not.

If we collectively wanted to make these sites safer it's perfectly possible to do so. It would impact profit, though, and involve regulation, so it doesn't happen.

And top parenting tip for you here discussions around sex and consent with one's children are nothing like being angry that commercial game developers are exploiting kids for profit knowing that their platforms are unsafe.

@stackthecats oh Jesus.
You don't have to be told. You know it's very likely. Alton Towers know it's likely. You can choose the keep your kids away from it forever, because Alton Towers do not have the ability to recognise someone as an offender on sight and ban them.They can't act until something happens and then they call the police ,ban the person,whatever.

I don't have to be told about Roblox. I know it's very likely. Roblox don't have to say anything. They know it's very likely. They can't recognise an offender purely from their account and ban them. They can't act until something happens and it is reported and then they can inform the police,bar the email address,IP address etc. Parents can choose to keep their children off online platforms forever if they so choose, or at least until they are adults.

What concerned me about the article was the lack of investigative journalism and how it normalised things like buying oestrogen of the internet. That is a massive safeguarding issue. You never know what you are really buying off the internet (fake insulin for example) and something like oestrogen should not be taken unless under medical supervision. Is it just the younger generations who have to have it now, now, now? Hannah's brain won't be fully developed until age 25, taking any kind of hormones could have long term consequences.
Also, does it really only come down to your avatar wearing 'white short shorts' to make you female? The reinforcement of sexist stereotypes by the Guardian is just awful.

Haven’t read the whole thread. But my 7, 9 & even my 3 yo play it. There accounts are locked down. We know who is on their friends lists, their class mates and cousins only and my DH also plays with them so he knows exactly what they are doing. He was an avid gamer as a child so is happy for them to play games. He worked abroad for almost 6 months last year and it was a great way for him to do something with them while he was stuck in a hotel room and we were stuck in the house. Obviously my 3yo dosnt understand what it’s all about but she wants to be included. They know never to tell anyone their real name or ages or to accept friends requests from anyone unless we ok it. We also regularly check they are sticking to the rules. Other parents and older siblings of my DCs friends also join in and keep an eye on them.

During lockdown it’s been a great way for them to play with their friends. They will video chat their group of friends and the lot of them will play roblox together screaming at the video. Even my 3yo has another 3yo she plays and chats with, the younger sister of my other DDs school friend they mainly talk about making their avatars look like ballerinas.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@stackthecats oh Jesus.
You don't have to be told. You know it's very likely. Alton Towers know it's likely. You can choose the keep your kids away from it forever, because Alton Towers do not have the ability to recognise someone as an offender on sight and ban them.They can't act until something happens and then they call the police ,ban the person,whatever.

I don't have to be told about Roblox. I know it's very likely. Roblox don't have to say anything. They know it's very likely. They can't recognise an offender purely from their account and ban them. They can't act until something happens and it is reported and then they can inform the police,bar the email address,IP address etc. Parents can choose to keep their children off online platforms forever if they so choose, or at least until they are adults.

[/quote]
The reality though, Accidentally, is that your point sounds good but in fact, Alton Towers, like any commercial business (especially one with a lot of children involved), has to comply with a lot of regulation around safety, from health to food to coronavirus legislation, and also have to take security, safeguarding and risk planning extremely seriously. They will be liable if they don't, and can be closed down if they knowingly permit criminal activity on the premises or are actively negligent.

Whereas companies like those that own Roblox not only aren't subject to regulation, but actively resist genuine regulation around online safety, and are most often registered in other domains anyway, so that they can't be made legally responsible for any harm that occurs on their platforms.

But okay, so long as we are all on the same page that all of this is okay as long as some people have fun and make money.

It's a balance - how do we ensure that children from families where parents don't set the parental controls are protected? What responsibility do commercial companies have in ensuring that children are kept safe? (not much I suspect).
And as for the Guardian - that article is dreadful, openly celebrating a number of safeguarding red flags. Shame on them.

I was very naive when my then 10 year old started playing roblox, didn't realise there was a chat function to begin with. I've always told him never to talk to strangers online, told him the dangers etc but it obviously didn't sink in. One day it was open on the laptop and I read his chats, seemed to have 2 or 3 "girlfriends", one of which was 16/17! I felt so stupid, turned off chat and put a pin on, again told him the dangers of talking to strangers. He just made another account, didn't even need an email address. Now he can only play in the same room as me and then devices get hidden away from him.

The problem is less putting on my 'parenting big girls pants' but more that it is very hard to stay ahead of your child online e.g. strict rules are broken/they play at a friends/they find away around your restrictions and very serious damage can be done before you even know.

This was an awful story, involving Discord:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderoff_Breck_Bednar

The Guardian are so, so irresponsible in this article.

I honestly don't understand parents who let their kids play online in any kind of format. Except that its easier for for parent.

It's wildly open to abuse and screen time at a young age is proven to be detrimental at anything more than a very minimum amount, most of which they will get at school. (See WHO guidelines)

I have seen first hand the dangers to children on line (paediatric doctor).

Take them to the park or give them a book instead.