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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

How should this be paid for?

56 replies

loantopil · 23/04/2021 10:47

PIL are living in a property we own as due to poor finances do not have their own place. Both currently not working but looking for jobs. They've asked DH to pay the council tax this month as they are short. They are not ones to cut their cloth and I could see this coming (they used to borrow from DH more regularly and usually repaid although he often picked up bill for family events).

We both work FT and put all income into family pot and from that have monthly allowance for personal spending. He assumed he'd help PIL from his personal spends but now seems annoyed I didn't offer for it to come out of the family pot. He can afford what they are asking for (about half his monthly discretionary spending).

From my POV, although we are financially comfortable now we cannot afford to support PIL long term beyond living in our property rent free. They have not saved to retire and cannot live the life they want to on their small pensions. DH is understandably stressed by this as it falls to him to pick up the pieces although he will never get clear information from his parents about their need for regular support or speaking to them to reduce their expectations of what is achievable on their budget.

My AIBU is that I don't feel that our family money should support them, if DH wants/needs to help with bills it should come from his own money as it might help him address with them their situation. I admit my judgement might be clouded as I have a different situation with my own parents and have had issues with being on the same page with PIL in the past.

YABU - you should help PIL from the family pot
YANBU - DH should use his own money when they need help

OP posts:

FizzyPink · 23/04/2021 12:18

If they are short due to their own inability to budget then I absolutely would not be contributing. It would be different if some catastrophe had left them short but they are adults and therefore need to be responsible for themselves.

I imagine your DH is in a tricky situation though. We have had similar in the past with MIL (she even took out a loan in DPs name without asking) but because she’s spent his life showering him with expensive gifts and holidays (which have meant she can’t pay for the basics) he feels indebted to her generosity and so does what she asks.
I find it baffling after growing up with financially responsible parents who would have done anything to earn money rather than take from their children.

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 13:11

I know just what you mean @FizzyPink, I am sure some years that DH has just paid for his own birthday present

OP posts:

Bluntness100 · 23/04/2021 13:16

I didn’t think any other countries had council tax?

FizzyApricot · 23/04/2021 13:18

Absolutely from his pot not the family pot. It's his choice to subsidise them.

Howshouldibehave · 23/04/2021 13:20

He assumed he'd help PIL from his personal spends but now seems annoyed I didn't offer for it to come out of the family pot.

Why did he assume he’d pay it but then changed his mind?

How old are your in laws-they sound a bit of a waste of space! Have they ever held down jobs?

Your DH is VERY unreasonable expecting you to work to pay for his in laws when they aren’t working!

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 13:22

@Bluntness100 whatever the local property tax is called, it's not exactly council tax but similar in terms of an essential bill.

OP posts:

EL8888 · 23/04/2021 13:27

Wow just wow. Strong contenders for CF of the year, they need to take some responsibility for themselves. I wouldn’t be subsidising them more than you’re doing

Digcho · 23/04/2021 13:30

@Bluntness100 yes they do, I’m in Spain and it’s called IBI here. Not sure where OPs property is, but it may be an advantage having parents living in it and looking after it? Lots of cases here if tenants being unable to pay rent due to Covid leaving them with zero income.
OP what would happen if your DH received a windfall from his DP? Would you regard that as family money, or DHs?

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 23/04/2021 13:41

I think I'd let him pay out of the family money on the condition that it was a one off and he explains to them that as a condition of them living rent free he is taking control of their finances, getting their pensions, sorting their bills and giving them spending money. This is going to happen again and again otherwise

Londonmummy66 · 23/04/2021 13:42

I can sort of see why he's a bit peeved. However I think that there is a long term problem here that he is ducking rather than putting on his big boy pants and making his parents confront their finances. Until he does this you have a bit of a DH problem as well as a Big PIL problem. So I think you should stick to your guns and make him pay for anything they ask out of his discretionary spends. If he is going short it might be a motivation for him to do something about it.

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 13:42

@Digcho it would depend on the circumstances but usually we decide together how any money is spent. My DPs have been generous enough to help us move house and pay for some home improvements and I see it as a gift to our family (as do they) rather than my money IYSWIM. If they gave a specific sum especially for me I would still probably do 20% of what I wanted with it and put the rest in the family pot and DH would do the same.

OP posts:

Sleepyquest · 23/04/2021 13:47

It's awful that they expect their son to pay for them to live. They need to sort themselves out. You have your own children to think of. Quite honestly, you should kick them out so they can get housed by the state and then your DH needs to talk through a budget with them or maybe take control of their finances completely if they are going to live in your property.

Bluntness100 · 23/04/2021 13:47

[quote Digcho]@Bluntness100 yes they do, I’m in Spain and it’s called IBI here. Not sure where OPs property is, but it may be an advantage having parents living in it and looking after it? Lots of cases here if tenants being unable to pay rent due to Covid leaving them with zero income.
OP what would happen if your DH received a windfall from his DP? Would you regard that as family money, or DHs?[/quote]
Sorry you’ve missed rhe point, the point is I don’t think any other country calls it council tax. Although I don’t know. I’m fully aware many countries have a tax of some sort.

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 13:48

@Howshouldibehave he didn't change his mind I just got the impression he was waiting for me to offer and I left him hanging

I've been raising it for a few years there is a massive long term issue here but they just bury their heads in the sand and don't actually change anything. Hence why I feel I need to draw a line, I wish I didn't have to. Glad the collective seems IANBU but not sure what the long term solution is other than show DH this thread

OP posts:

notalwaysalondoner · 23/04/2021 13:54

I agree with you and think this very much falls in the 'help them to help themselves' category - it will help both your DH and your PILs in the long term if he feels the burden of having to cover it from his personal spending money, as then he'll be more incentivised to address the actual issue rather than just see it as another long-term family expense like the bills and rent/mortgage. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind (not that this is cruel, but it's the same concept).

AOwlAOwlAOwl · 23/04/2021 13:57

You did the right thing OP.

I would suggest the only way this gets sorted by your DH is if this situation is made to impact him and then he might take action. In that sense him playing the full bill himself is absolutely right.

I would be completely mortified and ashamed if my parents were such freeloaders. Do you think this is stopping him getting to grips with it? The contrast with your parents could not be greater could it.

You are both already extremely generous letting them stay rent free in your house. Long term that will cost money, that could be going to your children instead of PIL. Are they relatively healthy? This could go on for decades.

Digcho · 23/04/2021 14:15

It’s a difficult situation when your respective DPs have different attitudes to finances. You’ve been fortunate enough to benefit from the frugality of your parents, but on the other hand have had to sub DHs parents. What country are they in? Pensions are more generous than UK in many countries. I’d pay the tax as a one off for this year, but as soon as you can get together sit down and spell out exactly what they need to cover in future years.

AmyLou100 · 23/04/2021 14:24

I agree with you. Don't get drawn into his arrangement. Why should you bail him out of the situation he is continuing to enable.

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 15:47

It's not been mentioned since so I am assuming he is just going to transfer to them from his own account. I suppose we will have to deal with it again next month but I suspect DH would rather expect me to shift than them...

OP posts:

Howshouldibehave · 23/04/2021 16:06

but I suspect DH would rather expect me to shift than them...

That’s a huge expectation though that I wouldn’t be happy with. Why does he think you should work to give money to them?!

Feedingthebirds1 · 23/04/2021 16:53

Point out, if you haven't done so, that you are already subbing them to the tune of £x, where x is the market rent for your property that they're living in. So you're losing out on income. And/or you're not able to use it should you want to. And then he wants you to give them more.

Has he recognised that your parents are giving and his are taking?

Original poster

loantopil · 23/04/2021 17:29

Has he recognised that your parents are giving and his are taking?

He has recognised the difference and is extremely grateful to them, however I do think he thinks that they've been lucky and PIL been unlucky rather than my DPs have worked hard and made better choices. The irony is that DH works so hard and has made good choices too I think deep down he is a bit embarrassed but also feels sorry for his own DPs

OP posts:

billy1966 · 23/04/2021 19:06

@osbertthesyrianhamster

YANBU. In fact, you're being more than generous. I'd have divorced him for thinking our family should sub them and then he could see how far he got doing that once all the property had to be sold in the split. I have zero patience for this type of shit.

It shouldn't. In fact, none of it should. Every single penny spent on them is money taken away from your own family and/or your own pensions.

The rent you're not collecting is worth thousands/annum. If that's not enough for them, well, honestly, I'd be having words with your husband.

But the council tax comes from his personal allowance.

This is harsh but I really agree with it.

I admit i have never been in a situation like this but it would boil my blood for my husband to be treated like a cash cow by anyone.

I think there is a huge sense of entitlement and precedent being set here for the future.

It certainly warrants a conversation with your husband.

The key thing here is not them needing some genuine help, it's them living beyond their means and the expectation that your husband will step in and pay for the boring responsibilities of life.

Wouldn't be accepting of this at all.

I love the saying that I read " the harder I worked, I found the luckier I got".

Reinventinganna · 23/04/2021 19:14

Where does it end?
You’ve been amazing letting them live rent free but they need to support themselves.
They’ve got a grown up son, they aren’t children.

PlanDeRaccordement · 23/04/2021 19:18

[quote loantopil]@Bluntness100 whatever the local property tax is called, it's not exactly council tax but similar in terms of an essential bill.[/quote]
Depends...Council tax in the U.K. is not a property tax but an occupancy tax. Most countries a property tax is paid by the owner of the property regardless of whether they live in it or tenants do.

So I am not sure how to respond because it is not clear who is actually responsible for this bill?

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