What should you think about when choosing a secondary school?

[Liveonyournerves]

I will soon be thinking about secondary schools for our DC. Granted, i won't have much choice in local ones, but I intend to see a few, and some private ones.

I want to make sure I'm asking and looking for the right things. In retrospect, i went blindly into primary school, following the herds liking a particular school. In reality, another school would have been much better for DC.

I realise I can read the Ofsted report, but I know now it's just one window onto the situation. What sorts of questions should I be asking of school, staff, teaching - what should I be looking for generally?

Thanks so much.

Is your child year 5? If so mine is too, so placemarking! I so hope open days come back this autumn!

Ask about extra curricula activities; homework policy; sports available ; how they deal with bullying. I hope you will be able to visit the schools in question because a lot of it goes on gut feeling. Do you belong to your local FB groups? You could ask there. Go stand outside the schools and see what the pupil are like when they come out.

Aside from the league tables, which you can look up:

1- distance. You won't want to base your decision on this, but the reality is that the day-to-day logistics matter. Can he get there safely at age 11? Can he get back if he stays after school for a club? Will the friends he make who live locally? Will he be able to catch a bus to meet them at the cinema, or will you have to ferry him around because they live miles away? You don't want a bored, isolated teenager.

2- Ethos of the school and the culture/vibe. Hard to pick up without viewing the school unfortunately. Our first choice had just spent a fortune on a fab new student cafe. They want the kids to chat and develop social skills. I loved that.

3- Find out about the students' behaviour & the school sanctions policy. I've heard some horror stories about kids throwing chairs and kids in isolation.

4- Some schools specialise in certain subjects or might offer a club another doesn't. That may or may not matter to your son.

Think about what school your child is most suited to. I had a perfectly good secondary school near me but it wasn't right for her.

There were a couple of other factors involved too but mainly it was a decision based on her rather than what things the schools offered.

Agree with the above but also - what subjects are on offer at GCSE and beyond. Most schools around here start their GCSEs in Year 9 so choose options in year 8 so it’s not too far away to think about. Eg - what languages do they offer ? Do they offer things like photography or food tech or construction if that’s what your DC is interested in. How many stay on to sixth form and what options do they have there ?
What are the facilities like for what your DC are interested in - eg if sporty do they have decent grounds and competitive teams ? If arty do they have a studio with a kiln / space / . If they like dance is there a studio and option to do dance as a gcse ?
Also agree that it’s important to consider if they can get there independently or not.

Think about what school your child is most suited to. I had a perfectly good secondary school near me but it wasn't right for her.

I hear this a lot, can you explain what you mean exactly? I don't mean to sound daft but never quite understood how to know if a school would suit my child or not

I live between two good sized towns (outskirts of London)

One of my deciding factors was which town did I want the 'default' meeting up with friends location to be - one of the schools although not being in the that town itself was nearby and a lot of pupils came from there. It is edge of London and has some gang issues and is generally higher crime than the town the other direction from me. I just felt more comfortable with her meeting up in the other location when she was starting out on her own.

Does your house have the closest fridge to the school, and if so are you happy to have a houseful of kids at 3.30pm? (One thing I didn't consider but discovered on the first day!)

Consider what’s best for your dc, not your friends dc. Your dc friends may all like school x, but if you prefer school y, then choose y. Don’t worry about friendship groups, they all tend to make new friends at senior school.

Look at Ofsted report carefully and read between the lines. Remember, they only have a snapshot of the school, and sometimes the conclusions are based on very few observations.

Visit a couple of schools ( if allowed) in year 5. It will give you an idea of what to look for in year 6, and your dc won’t be so daunted by the size of the school etc.

Talk to the pupils. Ask them what they like about the school, and dislike.

So we have a dc in year 6 and had to apply after not even seeing the schools...

Things that talking to a lot of parents- what will suit one child won't suit another. Eg. One family had moved their dc out of a school because he struggled with "petty" rules and the very strict discipline at the school. Things like not being allowed to talk when lining up for assembly, their dc found it dull and joyless. Another family raved about that school, but their dc is a child who needs very clear boundaries, needs to know what the rules are, and is happy with strict rules as long as they know what's needed of them.

(We had that on our list but our dc isn't going there).

Subjects offered vary from school to school more than I realised until starting to look into it - the school dc1 is going to will let them do 2 languages, however pretty much all the state schools in our area only offer French or Spanish, you can't study both to GCSE. The way science is taught can be very different. Not all offer separate sciences at GCSE. Some will be more sports focused, theres one near us with an amazing reputation for drama and dance.

This is all excellent, thank you

We discounted our local school partly because they finish at 2.30pm. The DC then all wander over to the retail park.

Knowing my DD and how easily led she is, the potential for her to fall off the rails between 2.30pm and my finishing work was just too great.

Ask about how they recognise girls and young women as girls and young women. How they deal with misogyny usually from boys, sexual harassment (again usually from boys), respect dignity for girls and young women.

Place marking as we are looking at schools too. Some very helpful replies here!

We had in reality the choice between 2 schools, a 3rd would have been a hit and miss, so you need ot be realistic unless you are prepared to go private.

So, no. 1 is distance, can you child go to and from school on its own. DD has a 40 minutes walk but that's nothing for most children in our borough.

Ofsted needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. How old is it, has there been a leadership change or change in strucutre like council to academy. If there are negative points, what exactly are they and how important are they for you.

For us the whole feeling of the school was important. Obviously secondary children aren't mollycoddled like primary but still, if the school puts emphasis on general well being on par with grades and attendance, it is worth a lot. If you can see the school then it is important to see how confident the students are with the teachers, you are normally shown around by Y7/8, so children who haven't been at school that long and it shows a lot to see how they interact with the teachers and also how the teachers talk to them.

For example we found it important that the school has a section staffed with SENCO teachers, available to all children, all day long. They can go and speak to people in confidence, no questions asked, no judgement.

Grades - it is not just the GSCE and A-level but also the attainment 8 score, showing the progress they made. Also, will they push Y7 straight into sets and if so based on what? DD's school is unusual, they only have sets for maths, PE and arts in KS3, which fits DD a lot as it means she is within her form/buddy form for most subjects and could form close friendships.
The school has one of the highest achievements in England, so sets are not all, something schools may push as the ultimate level of achievement.

If your child has a special interest it may be worth looking how this is supported, so be it music, sports etc. Saying that DD's school had a really good MFL programm, new head changed it to just one MFL to the bitter disappointment of parents. Things will change and you need to have some flexibility.

DO NOT go by where her current classmates will go. DD was in a mixed year of 60 in primary, around 20 girls of this group are at her current secondary which has an intake of 240 girls (8 form). She sees exactly 4 on a regular basis and none of them are close friends. She made new friends very easily.

After school clubs can be a bit hit and miss, DD liked them for a while but in the end preferred the ones she did outside school. Saying that she isn't into sports and most of the clubs are either music or sports orientated in her school, especially for the lower year groups.

How likely is it that your child will be offered a place

Then in no particular order:

Ofsted
Parent reviews
Progress 8 score
GCSE grades (various measures here)
Ethos of school (website, policies, newsletters)
School transport (can my child get there safely)
Clubs, extra curricular activities, school trips
Reward systems. Is there a culture to achieve across the board or just in 1 field.
Facilities. Science labs, sports, art, drama

If you have any mum friends who are TAs they can be valuable sources of info.

What is the attainment/progress 8 score?

Having chosen the local school for my son based on his comfort and safety (he’s a homebird and I like having him close), I now regret this decision because there had recently been an awful Ofsted at this school so the school changed leadership. They are now running it like a military school, with constant warnings and detentions, fingers on ruler at all times while reading, etc etc.

I would focus on my child’s personality - if mental health support will ever be needed, how do they go about it? Is the school teamed up with other schools and run by a trust? Is the head teacher in charge of making her own decisions?

Honestly, secondary is a whole new world to primary and I wish so bad I had prepared my son for the huge shock that was ahead. What’s your child like? Confident? Timid? Quiet/loud?

I would never send my son somewhere where he knew no one. My son is very timid and quite shy and he’d struggle massively.

It's so personal, what do your dc need!
Very bright?
Middle? Bottom, sen?

Sporty... Quirky, drama.. Arts.. All of this.

I've just moved my dd, I didn't feel she fit in her area and school although it's good...

I'm hoping she'll make more of fiends...

Oh yes and her current school is supposed to be really good but looking at destinations.... It's all polys! I've nothing agaisnt them, I went to one but it kind of belies the idea it's a good school that's does its best by its pupils?
I'm sending her to school that has lots of both types of uni as a destination.

Other dd will have totally different needs.

Attainment 8 is a score based on the actual grades students get.
Progress 8 is a score based on the progress made between Year 6 and Year 12.

Historically there were some outstanding schools that were outstanding for having high pass rates, but really they just got enough middle to bright prior attaining children to reach a C or higher. They probably weren't outstanding schools because plenty of bright children weren't achieving their potential.

Now the focus is on progress from Y6-11. It's a better measure, but not perfect. If you live in an area with a robust SATS factory approach to Year 6, some students will have to get a grade 8 for the school to break even, even if the child isn't exceptionally bright. Equally, I know some schools get fantastic Progress 8 scores, but they achieve it by cutting access to MFL and humanities for large numbers of students in order to push vocational options, regardless of what is right for the students. They won't openly talk about it as narrowing the curriculum, but that's what it amounts to for many.

This is all so helpful. Already makes me consider what I've read with different eyes

LolA interesting...

Are you there other ways of fudging scores!!

@newnortherner111

Ask about how they recognise girls and young women as girls and young women. How they deal with misogyny usually from boys, sexual harassment (again usually from boys), respect dignity for girls and young women.

I was going to say similar. I have sons but the answer to this question would be informative and illuminating. I do not want my sons in a school that does not respect the rights of girls and does not ensure they have access to single sex provisions where appropriate. Speaking for myself here - if there is a whiff of Stonewall anywhere near that school my children won’t attend it.