Change to school PE kit, does this sound reasonable?

[lucie8881]

Not sure whether I’m missing something glaringly obvious so I thought I’d see what others opinions are on this. For background, my 2 daughters attend the same high school, one in year 10, the other year 8. The basic PE kit comprises of a polo shirt to be worn with either shorts, tracksuit bottoms or a skort. The skort was introduced three years ago, it’s a short a-line style gym skirt with integrated cycling shorts. All the kit has the school emblem and colours and can only be purchased through one supplier specified by the school. Due to coronavirus precautions in place, on PE days, children are to attend school in their PE kits with their blazer over the top.

At the start of the school year I asked my daughters what their preference was for PE kit and both opted for a skort and a pair of tracksuit bottoms, for when the weather was cooler. However, my eldest DD has had a growth spurt so her tracksuit bottoms are now too small.

During the summer holidays last year a new head teacher came into position, and from the outset he seems to have taken issue with the skorts. On several occasions he has asked girls to pull the skorts down as they are too short. But because of the integrated shorts you can’t really make them longer or shorter.

Then this afternoon I receive an email from the school, addressed to all parents, stating that with immediate effect skorts are not to be worn as it’s been identified as a safeguarding issue.

Now I’ve got just 2 days to get hold of some shorts for my eldest, which irritates me on a few levels. My DD has worn the shorts previously but didn’t like them as the waistband was thick and itchy and the legs were too loose fitting so we’re more revealing than she was comfortable with. Plus they’re not the cheapest and I’m not able to shop around. There’s no point buying anymore tracksuit bottoms as they are standard length and will be far too short.

I just can’t see what safeguarding issue there could be around the skorts? Unless I’m missing something?? My concern is that the change is fuelled by the head teachers own personal views on what is appropriate dress for women/girls.

I’m going to email the school tomorrow to ask whether there has been an incident that I’m not aware of that has led to the change.

Am I being unreasonable for being annoyed by the sudden change to PE kit and missing a genuine safety concern?

A well fitted and correctly sized skort would be ok, it's because they wear them in sizes that are way too small. They are so short, it looks like they are wearing nothing as the skort is shorter than the polo top.

Skorts do not come in different lengths. Buying a bigger one adjusts the waist size so if you get a bigger size to try and make it longer, it will just be too loose.

Skorts are stretchy. If you have a girl who is equivalent to size 14 and she wears a skort equivalent to size 8, the skirt will automatically become shorter.

They aren't that stretchy! I certainly couldn't fit in my DD's skort 😂😂

(They're £33 so I'm not going to try!)

@SoupDragon I think you would be surprised if you would come to our school...

Ask why the shorts are "safer" as you cannot think of a reason. No item of clothing will protect a woman from harrassmemt after all. Those who choose to harass can be set off by any number off petty grievances.

Suggest leggings or trackies as an alternative, but one that is offered, NOT just imposed.

A skort is on the uniform list for my daughter's school but since they've made them wear kit AND blazer some girls were getting street harrassmemt instead of changing the uniform policy the teachers relaxed rules around leggings (so not just one specific length and fabric) and most that walk to school have taken this up. The school at no point made this a problem for the girls. The school sought to give them choice.

Carrying a blazer to school or weaing leggings seems to stop these incidents. Not that girls should change their behaviour. By not changing the policy or making it into a thing about the girls looks or behaviour the students felt the teachers were not blaming them. They widened the choice, rather than trying to control.

@SoupDragon

A well fitted and correctly sized skort would be ok, it's because they wear them in sizes that are way too small. They are so short, it looks like they are wearing nothing as the skort is shorter than the polo top.

Skorts do not come in different lengths. Buying a bigger one adjusts the waist size so if you get a bigger size to try and make it longer, it will just be too loose.

well that's not quite true.

If you are wearing one several sizes too small, it will be very tight, and the length of the larger size will be longer than the smallest size, just because of the overall shape.

A very small tight skort will stretch tightly over the bum and thighs and also ride up as it is elastic fabric.

A skort that is the right size will sit better, have a loose skort front, not tightly stretched and will not ride up, so will sit on the right place on the thighs.
It isn't just a larger waistband, there is more fabric over the bum and legs in a larger size.

I passed a girl on the way to school this morning. She had on a skort that was WAY too small. She was also not the smallest. It was not a great look, and I felt sorry for her actually having to go to school in it. I know that at that age I would have felt self-conscious in something that small and tight.

SoupDragon oh I hadn't really thought about different sizes of trackies being different lengths. I innocently thought an age 16 labelled pair would be longer than an age 14 labelled pair. I am 5ft so everything is always too long for me so I have probably never noticed.
Although trackies are kind of unisex so I assume there must be ones she could get from the blokes section that would fit. I see plenty of 6ft tall skinny lads wearing trackies.
(I would also have the urge to purposely buy the wrong colour just to piss the school off - but that would be unfair to the child)

DD15 is at a girls-only school. They have a PE kit of skorts and tracksuit bottoms and we were all told back in September that they should not travel to school in the skort. They didn’t give a reason but I cannot think of another one other than safeguarding the girls from unwanted attention en route. It’s a city centre school with a high percentage of girls taking public buses or walking to school. The skorts are shorter than most shorts and I genuinely believe would result in girls being harassed (more than usual) on the way to school.

I passed a girl on the way to school this morning. She had on a skort that was WAY too small. She was also not the smallest. It was not a great look, and I felt sorry for her actually having to go to school in it. I know that at that age I would have felt self-conscious in something that small and tight

But this isn't a safeguarding concern.

If the school dont want the girls to wear skorts because they dont look as professional/smart as other options then they need to word it that way

I passed a girl on the way to school this morning. She had on a skort that was WAY too small. She was also not the smallest. It was not a great look, and I felt sorry for her actually having to go to school in it. I know that at that age I would have felt self-conscious in something that small and tight

Then abolish logos. Ensure new skirts can be passed down/ sold second hand/borrowed.

Make it an option to go to asda and buy one for a fiver instead of paying 15 pounds for one with a logo.

Schools really are their own worst enemy witg this stuff. If you want kids to look smart and in well fitting clothes then stop making people buy stuff thats several sizes too big or being made to last years after they grew out of it as it's 30 +pounds for 1.

Supermarkets have made this piss easy. Schools are the one demanding more custon products he worm akd making the purchases of new items difficult. You cant pass down or borrow a pe t shirt when it's got someone else's name printed on the back.

Ilovemaisie

girls uniform tracksuits are crap.
Ours have to be the school one. That is 3 colours in stripes down the leg, so no way can you buy a plain alternative from somewhere else.
They are a rubbish shape, too much fabric round the waist and then wrong shape on bum and then too short. Fabric not stretchy.

I have 2 girls, who are completely different shapes. Neither is taller than an average woman, the trakssuits fit neither of them.

Why they can't just ask them to wear a plain black one with a school shirt I really don't know.

The answer to this is simple. Request that the students either wear tracksuit trousers over the top or leggings underneath. My dd attends a specialist dance school so their kit is essentially a leotard. During covid restrictions the lower school (no formal uniform for 6th form) have to wear a tracksuit over the top apart from when actually in dance class. Up until Easter it didn't even have to be the official school tracksuit (it does now but it's given them two terms to get sorted.)

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz
totally agree, not a safeguarding concern. Was in response to the person who commenting about sizes

Whatwouldscullydo

couldn't agree more. See my comment above about tracksuits.

@QwertyGirly did your school really stop the wearing of skorts because of harassment in a coffee shop ?! How disappointing that the school didn't suggest to the business owners that their customers were in the wrong for harassing children in PE kit instead of dumbing down the kit to make it less appealing to adults who can't help but harass teenage girls.

My DDs' school PE kit is pretty outdated and doesn't have anything as modern as a skort but the old-fashioned gym knickers have been upgraded to cycling shorts which are to be worn under the netball skirts. On PE days, they can choose to wear plain navy jogging bottoms or netball skirts with short cycling shorts. Local residents and businesses seem to have managed to avoid harassing the girls in PE skirts, just as they manage to avoid harassing them when they wear their regular uniform skirts.

@Ilovemaisie

SoupDragon oh I hadn't really thought about different sizes of trackies being different lengths. I innocently thought an age 16 labelled pair would be longer than an age 14 labelled pair. I am 5ft so everything is always too long for me so I have probably never noticed. Although trackies are kind of unisex so I assume there must be ones she could get from the blokes section that would fit. I see plenty of 6ft tall skinny lads wearing trackies. (I would also have the urge to purposely buy the wrong colour just to piss the school off - but that would be unfair to the child)

At both ds's school and dd's school the male and female tracksuit bottoms were identical.

Do boys attend the same school as re tracky bottoms, if you look at boys sizes they may well have a longer leg length. Men’s are generally a longer standard leg length than women’s but I’m not sure at what age this starts.

Obv if it’s a girls only school this won’t apply.

It would be reasonable to say that boys and girls need to put tracksuit bottoms over shorts/skorts when not in the PE lesson itself (especially if they are having covid variations to when pupils change so some lessons or whole days are in sports kit)

It's not reasonable to ask only girls to adapt, when any safeguarding issue comes from toxic males. The school should be tacking the problem males within the school. And realise that they cannot control what their pupils wear when off the premises.

If they just think too short looks vile, they should just own their standards and decree the uniform they want without bringing in safeguarding

But there should be a long time whilst obsolete kit can still be worn, because parents have bought it expecting to get the wear from it.

I have to say all the skorts look too small.

My dd is petite and hers looks short but it fits round the waist. They don't ever seem to get any longer as they go up a size. I never noticed it before as they only wore them in school. Now they are going to school in them they do seem a bit inappropriate to me. However the only alternative is a pair of shorts that are smaller than the skort. All school logo'd uniform.

There are tracksuit bottoms but we don't have any. DD is not sporty and has not needed then and being in year 11 I am not going to buy a pair now!

steppemum oh definitely !! I agree.
I can see the theory behind not wearing the skorts while traveling to school. They are quite tight and short because they are designed for sports. Back in my school days we all wore leotards for indoor PE (shudder at the memory) and everyone used to cover them up with leggings or trackies to walk the approx 5 meters from the changing room to the gym because we all felt so self conscious and uncomfortable wearing them.

@ilovemaisie buying plain navy joggers for my 16-yr-old is a nightmare. She's 5'9" and has a slim waist. Men's joggers have a crazy amount of spare fabric around the bottom and there's a very real risk of the joggers falling off DD. Her PE ones fit round the middle but are mid-calf because her legs are long.

@SE13Mummy, No. I was not involved in this but there were a number of complaints, mostly from parents of girls, but also from other members of the community. And I also discussed this with friends who have daughters, and had the constant battle of encouraging their daughters to wear something more appropriate than a skort three sizes too small.

Our school allows any form of black tracksuit bottoms or leggings, or school shorts, or school leggings. There are a number of options, including options that are very affordable (such as black leggings). They don't need to have the logo on their PE trousers/shorts.

Having thought about this some more, the issue is worse in warmer weather. DD doesn’t wear sports leggings or tracksuits in hot weather as she’d melt on public transport, and (due to covid) changing is tricky at school so she’d be stuck in them all day and during the PE lesson.

So the solution of thin, 3/4 length cotton leggings under the skort is what she chooses in that situation. I wish she didn’t feel vulnerable on public transport in the skort, but she does, and I think she’s probably right, knowing how frequent street and public transport harassment is.

In terms of fit, she is very small for her age and the smallest size was too big for Y7. Now it fits (as in, doesn’t slip down, shorts aren’t baggy on her when they’re meant to be tight) it is really short - just about bum-covering. But the next size up would be baggy on the legs again, which is also an issue. So I think these sports skorts are designed to be very short and tight - though I’m sure schools could influence this, if they think it’s a problem.

SE13Mummy it always makes me laugh (in an ironic way) that so many trackies have have what looks like a pull string waist tie thing but it's actually just for show and doesn't actually tighten the waist at all.

@NotOnMute boys have to wear school trousers in 30 degree heat, on the underground and buses. But your DD couldn't wear light cotton leggings? I'm not sure I am following you on this.