Ageism on MN

[RockingMyFiftiesNot]

Ok so I expect this thread to be deleted because in part it will be a thread about several threads and mainly because MN has been turning a blind eye towards ageist posts.

Today I learned from MN that over 40s are elderly.
I've also learned that over 50s have lived their lives already and need to step aside to allow the younger generation to live.
I hate the daily mail but actually hope one of their journalists pick this up as MN doesn't seem to care

The assumption that middle-aged and elderly are wealthy one of the major problems of ageism. It leads to fewer or no facilities, services, and support for the many who aren't. Often, but not always, this will be those who are disabled or with a long term illness.

The assumption that middle-aged and elderly are wealthy one of the major problems of ageism

True, specially on MN

@mustlovegin

The assumption that middle-aged and elderly are wealthy one of the major problems of ageism

True, specially on MN

Yes. It's the belief that the middle aged and elderly have a healthy disposible income and the young do not. This simple is not true. I guess if MN is from a certain demographic, and they see their parents with large houses and good pensions, you can see why people believe this.

Regardless, those that do have a healthy disposible income, and generally built it up by simply living longer.

Yes, the housing market is terrible, its terrible for anyone on a lower income, not just the young and it needs sorting, but it had been terrible before. Or I guess, if you are from a certain demographic on MN and have only seen your parents being able to afford a nice house, you won't have seen this.

It's the belief that the middle aged and elderly have a healthy disposible income and the young do not

Retired households have seen an increase in disposable income vs working households. However this doesn't mean all pensioners are wealthy.

"Between 1977 and 2015-16, the disposable income of retired households increased on average by 2.8 per cent a year, after accounting for inflation and changes to household composition, compared with average annual growth among non-retired households of 2.1 per cent."

@vannyy

It's the belief that the middle aged and elderly have a healthy disposible income and the young do not

Retired households have seen an increase in disposable income vs working households. However this doesn't mean all pensioners are wealthy.

"Between 1977 and 2015-16, the disposable income of retired households increased on average by 2.8 per cent a year, after accounting for inflation and changes to household composition, compared with average annual growth among non-retired households of 2.1 per cent."

Percentage increases tell us nothing about actual levels of wealth /financial comfort.

A 2.8% increase on £10 is 28p

A 2.1% increase on £30 is 63p

No they don't which is why I said Retired households have seen an increase in disposable income vs working households

I only mentioned increase so I'm not sure what the problem is 🤷🏻‍♀️

Household income for pensioners has increased more then working ones after taking into account housing costs. This is largely due to better pension schemes & more owning homes in the first place & more having paid them off.

I vowed not to post anything on MN yesterday having been told that my views (on a Covid thread about how the young are having their lives destroyed) were "vengeful".

I kid you not! I had dared to share my experience of developing an illness and subsequent disability in my early teens and trying to make the point that you can still develop into a happy and functioning adult even when you have missed out on many experiences that we view as rites of passage in teen years and early adulthood.
I have spent a year shielding but as someone in my early 50s it was made pretty clear to me that I have "lived my life".

Having spent a lifetime struggling with a condition associated with being elderly I totally agree that our society does not value any qualities that are traditionally associated with age, such as wisdom and experience.

As a society we celebrate youth to the detriment of our elders. You only have to read the S&B boards to see that - constant insecurities about how old you look, whether certain clothes age you, whether comfortable shoes are "fugly", or whether, worst of all you have "given up ".

Having pondered much of this yesterday evening after being quite upset actually, I realise that many posters who spout such views are actually emotionally immature and lacking in critical thinking. My teenage DDs have been having horrendous experiences with their peers, who seem to need drama on a daily basis. I now believe that some people don't grow out of this developmental stage and fulfill this need via MN.

Bit of a ramble there, but all this intergenerational warfare is so unhelpful and unnecessary. Nobody gets to choose when they were born, for God's sake.

My DM (a war baby) has been shouted at in the Street following the Brexit vote. She voted remain!

As for the idea that people over 50 or 60 should step aside? I shall tell DH (early 60s) who has spent the last year (together with the previous 30) on the NHS frontline that he was depriving someone much younger and less experienced their chance. He would have been delighted to have spent more time in the garden!

@Tryingtryingandtrying

But there's people here saying they are not old or elderly at nearly 60 as if it is an insult. If i was 75 I could be offended. What's wrong with being 75? Or 60? Or 45? Or whatever age you are? Why are people so offended if they are judged to be older than they are?

Because as has been pointed out, youth is deified in our society. Why do you think the beauty industry makes millions from Botox and hair dye? It’s a predictable response to an ageist society.

@alsohuman but you can't complain about ageism against you and then do it to others (ie those older than you)

Isnt this why the over 40s were encouraged booted off to Gransnet? It's always been ageist and I'm not sure what the solution is.

@alsohuman there was also a previous poster who implied that if you are older and attractive (in whose eyes?) then people can't call you an old hag or other such insults as easily. I guess it's also tied up with misogyny. "silver fox" for men etc etc

Mathew Syed wrote a very good piece awhile back in The Sunday Times about the middle classes. Demographic movement does affect lifestyle expectations. There was a growth in home ownership in my parents generation. Many working class people bought homes for the first time. We have a growing population.The middle class family house that some grew up in is now not attainable for those who grew up with this comfortable lifestyle. It has always been not attainable for many. I agree with Icenniii that a lot of the anger seems to come from people who grew up this way. Ironically, they are also likely to inherit wealth but maybe some expect people to ‘ step aside’ to hurry this process on.
Mathew Syed wrote an excellent piece on this in The Times a while ago, the anger of elites who find they are no longer elites. On mumsnet that is expressed as why can’t I buy a 3 bedroom home with a garden and drive in a good area.....

I’m repeating myself, sorry.

@vannyy

All the threads about how "boomers" have stolen ALL the money and fucked off into their massive houses and pulled up the drawbridge are pretty wearing OP, so I agree.

They are wearing but it's just as wearing when older generations deny statistics that show younger generations have it harder these days.

Statistics are a very blunt tool. No sane person could deny that particularly home ownership, the cost of renting and wage stagnation etc make it harder on average than for “boomers”. The thing that is so offensive is the idea that every single boomer did this on purpose to shaft younger people because we are all evil cunts.

I remember during a courtroom trial once a (20 year old) witness described somebody he had seen as being "middle aged"; when the judge asked him how old roughly, he said "about 30". Lots of us laughed. But to a 20 year old, 30 is middle aged. It's all about perspective I suppose.

You see casual ageism in threads not designed to rile people up as well. There was a post suggesting that elderly people don't grieve as acutely as their younger counterparts on a Prince Philip funeral thread the other day.

And on the sahm v wohm threads there's a very superior and patronising attitude to mothers and in-laws from a different generation who have been sahms all their lives, as if they are by definition unintelligent and incompetent , which is as bad as any mysogynism, and I find really disrespectful. I come from a large family of strong aunts and grannies who were the mainstay of their families even though they never did paid work. Times change for sure and most of us work nowadays, but why is it so difficult to appreciate that things used to be different and why is it necessary to sneer at others because their reality was different to ours?

Statistics are a very blunt tool

Don't disagree

No sane person could deny that particularly home ownership, the cost of renting and wage stagnation etc make it harder on average than for “boomers”.

People do all the time, you just need to cut the avocados & phones out remember! That's a lot to tar insane 😆

The thing that is so offensive is the idea that every single boomer did this on purpose to shaft younger people because we are all evil cunts.

I haven't witnessed the above although I have seen posters say more older people vote Tories/Brexit. I always see the avocado comments though.

What's the alternative to statistics since the last yr we have been bombarded with them, covid cases, deaths, vaccine numbers, vaccine issues. Blunt but vital

I had dared to share my experience of developing an illness and subsequent disability in my early teens and trying to make the point that you can still develop into a happy and functioning adult even when you have missed out on many experiences that we view as rites of passage in teen years and early adulthood.

I was trying to make a similar point and someone highlighted my age of 43. All I wanted to say was that people should have more faith in the younger people whose lives they believe have been destroyed by older people during Covid somehow, and that these younger people probably arnt all sat in their bedrooms cursing our existence and blaming us, but will likely go on and do something productive with their lives.

My DSS 24 and 26 did what was required of them, just like every other person. They don't believe they have been shafted. They see it as a respone to the first global pandemic. They understood that it was a virus and not that pesky older generation, that meant life had to change.

Did they sit in their bedrooms moaning? No. In fact they have spent hours each week playing on line with DD9 because she was getting very lonely.

Did they sit in their bedrooms moaning?

It's ok to moan, I've moaned about homeschooling, I've moaned about not seeing parents (abroad), I've moaned about missing my inlaws funeral. It's ok to acknowledge it's often been shit. I am still aware that it's easier for me then others.

@vannyy

Did they sit in their bedrooms moaning?

It's ok to moan, I've moaned about homeschooling, I've moaned about not seeing parents (abroad), I've moaned about missing my inlaws funeral. It's ok to acknowledge it's often been shit. I am still aware that it's easier for me then others.

I agree it's okay to moan. I'm sure everyone has been doing this. That one sentence you quoted belongs to the paragraphs it was written in. They weren't blaming older people for the predicament.

I misunderstood I thought you were saying that your kids didn't & people shouldn't moan. I thought it would be quicker to post a line rather than your whole post.

Tbh I think the vast majority of people did what they needed to do regardless of their age. Although I was surprised by a lot of threads/posts about vaccine passports where people who were pro were ignoring the fact younger people would be waiting &/or having to work unvaccinated in those environments. To me that was just as bad as blaming older people for losing freedoms.

There is ageism and ageism.

Avoiding interviewing let alone hiring someone of 50 - unacceptable. Denigrating the opinions of the middle aged - well, hasn’t youth always been like this? - so depends. But there are pressure groups for no age barriers at all, so for say a heart transplant it would be first-come-first-served, even if top of the queue were someone of 90.

As for those policing the Style &Beauty threads and hectoring anyone who dares to describe shoes as “granny” or “old lady” - that’s just silly. Pick a better ageism hill to die on.

Ageism is tolerated because the law and institutions treat people differently based on their age. Want a COVID vaccine but under 30? Back of the queue. Want a pension but only 40? Fuck off mate. Want to join the army and are 90? No chance.

Those situations might seem ridiculous but they make the point that it is perfectly acceptable to treat people differently based on their age. Society drums that fact into us from the moment we are forced into school at the age of four. Growing up everything is age-restricted - parents won't let you do this or that until you are 10, can't watch that film until you are 15 and so on.

The point is if everyone believes that your rights and responsibilities change with age, it is logical that people will believe it is OK to treat people differently based on age in other areas too.