To think that the new French age-of-consent law leaves 12/13/14 year olds vulnerable to abuse?

[workwoes123]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/france-toughens-sex-laws-on-sex-with-under-15s

Laws just passed in France (finally) set the age of consent at 15. Prior to this, there was a kind-of age of consent of 15, but in practice it meant that in cases of sexual assault / rape, including that of young girls, the prosecution had to prove that the victim did not consent and that violence, coercion, threat or surprise were used. There have been several high profile cases - including one of an 11 year-old girl made pregnant by a 28 year old man, where the defence successfully argued that the girl consented to having sex, was not a "poor little faultless goose" and the suspect was acquitted. This new law is meant to address that situation - and it does as the victim under 15 yrs no longer has to prove that violence or coercion etc was used to prove rape.

However, a "Romeo and Juliet" clause has been included which allows under 15yr olds to consent to sex with partners that are no more than 4 years older than them. So a 14 yr old girl can consent to having sex with a 18 yr old man. Or a 12 year old with a 16 yr old. (I can't find anything that specifies if there is an age at which consent cannot be given at all).

Is this appropriate? Surely by specifying this in law it sends the message that sex with 13 year-olds is ok - as long as the other party is 17 yrs old or under. That's still a big gap in maturity.

YABU - young lovers (within these boundaries) should be free to have sexual relationships if they both consent

YANBU - this "Romeo and Juliet" clause leaves young, underage girls vulnerable to sexual exploitation.

I thought that anyone in an unequal age sexual relationship, if they were under 15, were automatically assumed to be a victim of rape?

The law is to protect the under 15's. Ours in the UK is 13.
Taken from a law website:
""The French National Assembly on Thursday unanimously passed a bill defining as rape any act of sexual penetration between an adult and a minor under 15, punishable by up to 20 years in jail. The move enforces an age of consent in a country where previous legislation on the matter was often seen as “ambiguous.”"

As I said, in the UK our equivalent law is 13. So the French are ahead of us in this. We are woeful at prosecuting adults who have sex with children.

*rape children

Not have sex with

@Ponoka7

You’ve got the first part. The extra clause exempts sexual relationships between under 15s and older partner as long as there isn’t more than 4 years difference. So 12 yr old with 16 yr old, 13 yr old with 17 yr old, 14yr old with 18 yr old - all exempt from the law.

Yes it does. However, the premise of taking somehow the age of the other person I do support. I do not think 16 and 17 year olds should be having sex with thirty somethings or older, and want the minimum age of marriage to be 18 to reduce forced marriage.

Thing is the laws have to reflect the societal values, and I do think that the average person would view the years just around the consent year slightly differently than a bigger age gap. I do think 4 years is quite a big gap still though, but would 14 and 15 be ok? Or 14 and 16? It happens a lot in this country where teenagers are 15 and having sex with 16 or 17 year old partners and I can see that is a much greyer area than a 28 year old raping an 11 year old.

I'm playing devils advocate a bit, as I think that it would be better to have a clear law, but I do try and imagine how an average member of the society might view it (the median opinion of a jury), and how I woods feel as the parent of the older and younger teenager in those circumstances

"So 12 yr old with 16 yr old, 13 yr old with 17 yr old, 14yr old with 18 yr old - all exempt from the law."

That isn't the case. It's going to be used from 13, if the victim and the family agree. Every country has these clauses, or possible considerations.

Here in the UK we don't have as strict laws as this one. So why pick on France and not call for our laws to be as strict?

Likewise child abuse images need to start to be given custodial sentences.

I think if you’re under 17 then an age gap of 4 years is too much. The Romeo and Juliet clause should be a gap of 2 years as long as the youngest is 15/16 years or older.

A 14 year old child with an 18 year old adult or a 16 year old child with a 20 year old adult is disgusting. You mature so much as you pass from your mid-teens to your 20s.

@Ponoka7

As I said, in the UK our equivalent law is 13. So the French are ahead of us in this. We are woeful at prosecuting adults who have sex with children.

I think it’s only legal for 13 year olds to have sex if they’re having sex with other 13 year olds. The age of consent is 16 in the UK.

As far as I can see, France doesn’t have a minimum age atm - though there is a lot of discussion about setting it at 13. If they do, it’s new, as those cases of the 11 yr-olds would have been a lot more clear cut if it was set out in law that under 13s cannot consent to sex. I’d be happy if @Ponoka7 can direct me to that legislation, as I can’t find it.

And I’m not “picking” on France ;-) I live here, and am bringing my now teenage / ado children up here so have a pretty keen interest in this subject.

16 and 20 disgusting? Of course it isn't - girls tend to mature earlier than boys and want older boyfriends. Or at least they did when I was a teen. I snogged a 26 year old when I was 19, would you say that was disgusting too? I wouldn't, he was gorgeous and definitely worth the snog!

14 and 18 is slightly different because our age of consent is 16.

I think in some ways our age of consent should be lower to stop criminalising boys who have sex with girls the same age as them, but it's a difficult line to draw.

@poppycat10

16 and 20 disgusting? Of course it isn't - girls tend to mature earlier than boys and want older boyfriends. Or at least they did when I was a teen. I snogged a 26 year old when I was 19, would you say that was disgusting too? I wouldn't, he was gorgeous and definitely worth the snog!

14 and 18 is slightly different because our age of consent is 16.

I think in some ways our age of consent should be lower to stop criminalising boys who have sex with girls the same age as them, but it's a difficult line to draw.

16 year olds are in school and 20 year olds are half way through university. It’s a bit creepy. 19 year old men sleeping with 15 year old school girls is also creepy. Why not go for someone closer to their age?

But the law doesn't protect any child from sexual abuse anyway.

All it does is occasionally punish an abuser. It doesn't stop them abusing anyone in the first place.