Would you walk across someone else's fields?

[hotpatooties1]

Just that really. I've been surprised since moving to a farm just how many people are willing to walk across other peoples land and allow their dogs to run all over it too. Some of the fields have just been sewn and are sprayed with fertiliser regularly..they don't seem to care.

I wouldn't do it, was brought up on and around farms and was told not to walk over other peoples land. I understand the right to roam and that lawfully, they are doing nothing wrong. It just doesn't seem right.

This morning I drove past one of our fields that is gated. A woman had gone into it with her dog, let it off lead and had a kid on a bike in it..AIBU? Would you do that?

People do the maddest things. I'm on a lot of farmers' Twitter threads. Some person picked up an ill lamb, took it home and tried to feed it goat's milk. I had a woman come to my door and accused me of being a bad farmer because a lamb was yelling for its mother. She seemed to think that we put them out in the fields and never looked at them again. When I told her that I fed the ewes twice daily astonished her. I didn't do much for farmer/the public relations that day. We need more education of the public.

@nickymanchester, thanks for the research, the correction and the links. I left ESCC in 2000, so wasn't there for the last part of the case, and the fact that ESCC had decided not to enforce the law was a complete surprise.

I was especially surprising as I knew the council's senior highways lawyer well (his office was close to mine and he was one of a small group of us who regularly met for lunch). He had no time for Hoogstraten whatsoever, and I'm sure he would have wanted to pursue the case.

I'd love to know why the council took the "do nothing" decision. What I do know is that a lot of people, including staff, were afraid of crossing Hoogstraten and wonder if the potential risk to council staff was among their reasons. Still shocking, that the body with the statutory duty to deal with breaches of RoW law decided not to bother. It's a shame no-one took this to the local government ombudsman.

Sadly, my former colleagued died a few years ago, so I can't ask him, and I'm no longer in contact with anyone who was there at the time.

@RobertaSloth

If you tried that in my fields, I would set my working dog on you. Or my unpredictable longhorn bull.

So much weird fake bravado from landowners here. ‘Setting a dog’ on someone is a criminal offence (unlike walking through someone else’s field) so let’s not pretend this is something you would actually do when the reality is you would probably stew crossly about it and then write a post on mumsnet instead.

No, I would. Probably just the dog in reality, the bull is less manoeuvrable. The dog probably wouldn’t bite but is quite fast, loud and territorial and I’d enjoy seeing the moron poster run...

Nothing criminal about a working dog being released into a field I own and work. If a trespasser was injured while trespassing on my land they could try taking me to court but they would not be successful.

@Onairjunkie please don’t set your dog on anyone. It is a criminal offence-your dog has to be under control at all times even on private property and is considered dangerously out of control if it injures or scares anyone enough to think they will be injured. You would be prosecuted under the dangerous dogs act and would risk your dog being destroyed. There is an exemption for trespass but this only applies inside dwellings. Owners are liable if their dogs scares or injures trespassers on their land (including gardens). What’s more, if you’re found to have deliberately set your dog on trespassers you could be charged with assault and even attempted murder (unlikely).
Also, farmers actually have a duty of care to trespassers and aren’t allowed to keep bulls of many breeds in fields with public rights of way. They must alert walkers of the dangers of livestock kept in fields adjacent to foot paths and many bull breeds are banned in fields with public rights of way. So setting your bull on a trespasser would likely see you in a lot of legal trouble.
So endangering someone’s life and committing criminal offences just because they’ve committed a minor civil offence probably won’t work out well for you. You’d be in a criminal court whereas if you wanted to prosecute a trespasser you’d have to prove they caused damages in a civil court.
I suggest you calm down and do what a normal law abiding person would do if you see a trespasser-and that is ask them to leave, which is all you’re entitled to do. You could call the police to get them to help remove the trespasser if they refuse to leave but no arrest can be made.

If there are no footpaths, no. Why would you?

I can see why people are annoyed by dog poo and litter being left by trespassers as that obviously causes damage. I’d be interested if a farmer on here could give me an estimate of how much income they lose per year due to people trampling their crops/grass. I’m not from a farming background so I have no clue/may be being very naive but I struggle to see how people occasionally walking around the edge of a field could cause damage. Or walking where tractors drive through so there are no crops underfoot. There are fields with rights of way through them near me, but no defined path through the field-can you walk anywhere in the field or must you take the most direct route from gate to gate? In one local field, there are 2 gates opposite each other so most people walk from gate to gate in a straight line. The grass on this line is no more trampled looking than the grass in the rest of the field which makes me think that people walking on the grass isn’t causing much (if any damage). I suppose this might be different if it had rained more recently or this was a busy footpath? Does anyone know roughly what the cost of damage by dogs running on grass/people having picnics slightly off the line of the path is? Is this cost increasing in recent years or is it something that has just always been factored into the cost of production? Or is the issue more that people don’t like the idea of strangers being on their property/are opposed to the principle even if there is little damage?

Leopard -
www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmer-counts-cost-after-walkers-stray-from-footpath

www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2021-02-14/walkers-urged-to-take-care-as-damaged-paths-cost-farmers-in-crop-damage

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/walkers-plea-farmers-footpaths-damaging-crops-wellies-868058/amp

If you tried that in my fields, I would set my working dog on you. Or my unpredictable longhorn bull.

You’re a moron. 🙄

Being a moron/admitting to occasionally walking round the edge of a field is a lot better than sending messages threatening to personally harm strangers on the internet. I’m sure that’s a lot more illegal than trespassing? You should be careful what you say.

No, I wouldn’t, not intentionally.

There have bern a couple of occasions where the public right of way arrows haven’t been clear, which is really annoying. I’ve turned around and retraced my steps rather than walk where I shouldn’t.

I never understand the “I didn’t know” argument. I wasn’t a townie growing up, more of a “surbie”. But surely it’s not that hard to understand, wherever you grow up/live now - don’t go trampling anywhere you like, put a bit of thought into it.

What’s annoyed me most, rural or otherwise, is the level of blooming litter. It takes so little effort to bag it up and take it away - those that don’t are vile. There’s no excuse for leaving litter - just a sense of self-importance, arrogance and not giving a toss about anything else.

No I wouldn't, but its because my grandparent's garden was opposite a field and we were always told to walk round the edges.

We went and played hide n seek in that field and the farmer caught us, we all got smacked alot (from the grandparents). I still remember that and I couldn't have been older than 5

Nothing criminal about a working dog being released into a field I own and work. If a trespasser was injured while trespassing on my land they could try taking me to court but they would not be successful

Actually, @Onairjunkie if your dog scares someone and makes them feel threatened, you have committed a criminal offence (having a dangerously out of control dog) and if your dog injured someone you could have them taken off you and destroyed.

The dangerous dogs' act changed recently and a dog no longer needs to cause physical harm to be considered "dangerous" - it also now applies on private land including private gardens (but not necessarily inside houses).

So yes, they may well be successful and you could lose your dog. Don't be a dick.

Nothing criminal about a working dog being released into a field I own and work. If a trespasser was injured while trespassing on my land they could try taking me to court but they would not be successful

Actually, @Onairjunkie if your dog scares someone and makes them feel threatened, you have committed a criminal offence (having a dangerously out of control dog) and if your dog injured someone you could have them taken off you and destroyed.

The dangerous dogs' act changed recently and a dog no longer needs to cause physical harm to be considered "dangerous" - it also now applies on private land including private gardens (but not necessarily inside houses).

So yes, they may well be successful and you could lose your dog. Don't be a dick.

Erm... how does it work with protection dogs then?

If I have a dog on my land to protect me/our household and someone comes onto my land, he’s going to growl, intimidate at least.

That’s not out of control, that’s trained, doing its job.

Here we go again- many times will the ‘right to roam’ legislation be misquoted?’

It’s not Right to Roam- it’s Right to Responsible Access. There is a huge difference.

Aka- taking your dog in a field of sheep is not responsible.

Walking across crops is not responsible (GRASS IS A CROP)

Riding across a rolled field is not responsible.

Quietly sticking to fence line / headway (if there is one) with your dog on a lead picking up it’s shit is responsible.

The entitlement of people makes my teeth itch.

@MzHz

Erm... how does it work with protection dogs then?

If I have a dog on my land to protect me/our household and someone comes onto my land, he’s going to growl, intimidate at least.

That’s not out of control, that’s trained, doing its job.

Sorry, but the law disagrees with you.

If someone feels intimidated by your dog, that counts as them being out of control. A dog doesn't need to attack or cause physical injury to be deemed "out of control" in law.

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:

in a public place
in a private place, for example a neighbour’s house or garden
in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

it attacks someone’s animal
the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

There is no exception for "protection" or guard dogs. Any dog deemed out of control can be removed from the owner and destroyed. The owner can be fined and imprisoned, and potentially banned from keeping animals in the future.

Guard dogs must be under the control of the handler at all times unless secured and not at liberty to roam.

From the Guard Dogs Act of 1975.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/50

@MzHz
you’re not allowed to have aggressive dogs running around endangering people on your property. At the very least you need a sign warning of guard dogs at every entrance to the property (including areas that aren’t official entrances but places where trespassers could access). This wouldn’t reduce your liability if your dog threatened or attacked someone though. The fact that your dogs are ‘trained’ to behave aggressively would not be looked on favourably at all by a judge if there was an incident and would increase your liability as you wouldn’t have the defence that the dog was acting out of character. This could mean you would be charged with assault not just having a dangerously out of control dog.
www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/guard-dogs-and-the-law/

I’m amazed that someone would keep a potentially dangerous animal on their property and not familiarise themselves with the laws surrounding dog ownership and their responsibilities (and then come on a forum and call other people morons).

@ConsuelaHammock thanks that’s interesting. People absolutely shouldn’t walk on wheat and other crops. It does seem that the main problem is the massive increase in walkers due to lockdown. I’m not sure that this is anyone’s fault and hopefully there will be less damage to crops near paths when there are fewer walkers again. I’m lucky that I walk where there are very few people even in lockdown. In areas where there are few walkers I still think it can’t be much of an issue if once or twice a week someone skirts round a field or through a tire track as long as no poo or litter is left and no gates are opened. I can appreciate that if lots of people do it it could cause damage so I see why people get annoyed. I think it takes common sense on both sides-you should avoid going on people’s property and absolutely shouldn’t cause damage and should leave if asked but equally if someone does walk across your property you shouldn’t threaten them, especially if no damage is done.

I’m amazed that someone would keep a potentially dangerous animal on their property and not familiarise themselves with the laws surrounding dog ownership and their responsibilities (and then come on a forum and call other people morons).

Sadly lots of people are oblivious to the law surrounding dogs in this country.

Lots of people also allow their dogs to growl, snarl and aggressively guard their homes and gardens, and don't realise it could get them into trouble.

People think if the dog doesn't bite, it's not dangerous, and that's not the case at all.

I think it takes common sense A quality sadly lacking in the people who walk their dogs near my sheep.

Being a moron/admitting to occasionally walking round the edge of a field is a lot better than sending messages threatening to personally harm strangers on the internet. I’m sure that’s a lot more illegal than trespassing? You should be careful what you say.“

You should. I was ticked off and had posts deleted twice for calling someone in the public eye a m...n” Not sure why you haven’t been. Maybe they just don’t like me 🥺

(Tells herself, just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not watching you ..... )

[quote LeopardSheet]@MzHz
you’re not allowed to have aggressive dogs running around endangering people on your property. At the very least you need a sign warning of guard dogs at every entrance to the property (including areas that aren’t official entrances but places where trespassers could access). This wouldn’t reduce your liability if your dog threatened or attacked someone though. The fact that your dogs are ‘trained’ to behave aggressively would not be looked on favourably at all by a judge if there was an incident and would increase your liability as you wouldn’t have the defence that the dog was acting out of character. This could mean you would be charged with assault not just having a dangerously out of control dog.
www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/guard-dogs-and-the-law/

I’m amazed that someone would keep a potentially dangerous animal on their property and not familiarise themselves with the laws surrounding dog ownership and their responsibilities (and then come on a forum and call other people morons).[/quote]
I don’t actually HAVE any pets

I was just asking about guard dogs

Who said morons? Nowt to do with me...

In Scotland yes, mindful of the requirement to not harms crops etc. In England, no - unless there was a public footpath.

No, I love rurally and walk my dog in the country every day. We never walk on other people's fields.