To want to sleep train 15 month old who is a terrible sleeper?

[mnetter21]

15 month old DS is a terrible sleeper at night.

We trained him when he was 10 months to sleep through the night without any night time feeds in his own room, and that was a success. He would often stir in the night and cry but usually would fall asleep fairly quickly again if we went and rubbed his back etc.

Since starting nursery 2 months ago, his night time sleep has been terrible. Often he would cry several times in the night, and each time we have to be by his side, gently patting his back, for 30-60 mins or so. As soon as he senses us leaving the room, he would start crying again, often in hysterics. As far as we know he settled really well into nursery and naps well there during the day.

This past week I started feeding him and then putting him to bed when he's not fully asleep, to see if that helped things. For the first three nights or so it did help, and his sleep was a lot better. But now it's back to how it was again: even worse, when he's put down in his cot awake, he needs someone by his side and pat him to sleep, or he'll cry nonstop again, at the top of his lungs. So our evenings have been cut short, too. I may as well go back to feeding him to sleep at bedtime.

I tried controlled crying but it didn't seem to help much as we would just end up going to his room several times a night, and in between he would be shrieking and in hysterics. I will persevere tonight but I doubt anything will change. He is a very clingy baby and just wants cuddles all the time. And I can't make my mind up if I'm being too harsh letting him cry like that, asking for attention. DH is inclining more towards the "cry it out" method, but it's so so hard to hear the baby like that for any length of time.

DS's terrible sleep has been really disruptive for our lives. I'm constantly tired during the working day as I can't rest well at night. AIBU to want to sleep train him rather than give in to his requests for cuddles? Any help or advice at all? As I type he is still crying hysterically in his cot as he just won't sleep without anyone beside him (I put him down not fully asleep). I'm starting to get desperate.

Of course you should sleep train if it’ll get you all much needed sleep.

We did at 7 months because I was going mad- it worked.

I would recommend a sleep consultant though, as it’s already stopped working once you want to go to an experienced professional. If you DM me I’ll give you the name of the woman we used.

The only thing I would say is please don’t just do “cry it out” (eg leaving them crying and not going back in to him) but there are gentler methods you can do which work. We did “gentle controlled crying”.

@VestaTilley thank you for the reply. May I ask what methods you used to train your baby - was it controlled crying so that you went to check on baby at certain intervals, e.g. 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, etc.?

I think it need to make my mind up as sometimes I just stayed with DS until he was fast asleep as couldn't bear the cries + repeatedly going in.

I sleep trained my child around that age - I went in every 3 minutes to reassure and soothe. The first time I tried it was before her afternoon nap. It took about half an hour of going in every three minutes. That night I was fearing it would be the same again but she didn’t even cry for three minutes so I never went in again, and since then she has very rarely ever needed any help going to sleep - it was almost an instant fix. Like she just needed that push to help her realise she would be fine on her own. I was able to have my evenings back. It changed my life, truly. She was happier as she was sleeping well too. I think it’s a good age to sleep train as they have a lot more verbal understanding than smaller babies and can be reassured with words - we read a book about mummy’s “never being far away” and being able to repeat that phrase to her helped I think.

We chose not to sleep train and instead co-slept through this phase. It does pass but it was exhausting! I do think though that sleep training doesn’t work with all children. They are little for such a short space of time and although at one stage I thought I would be forever co-sleeping, my 3.5 year old now mostly stays in his own bed and sleeps quite well.

You are 100% not being unreasonable. Also, there is always someone on these threads who will suggest co-sleeping - it's up to you to decide if you think a 3.5 year old who sleeps 'quite well' and 'mostly' in his own bed is a ringing endorsement of that approach.

@mizzles lol.

I do think that you just have to do what you think is right at the time for your baby. I've sleep trained but it wasn't the magic fix I was hoping for (although it did help). Plus they're always ill / teething / learning something new so it all goes out the window anyway (well, for me and my highly strung baby). I'm just clinging onto the thought that they will become better sleepers eventually.

Ps I liked Lucy Wolfe Baby sleep solution book.

Give it a try OP. We sleep trained at 13 months because we were losing our marbles! We tried the gradual retreat method but found it prolonged the crying as he always knew we would come back eventually, so he cried louder and longer despite the intervals getting longer and longer.

In the end, CIO worked for us - after about 3 nights. Those 3 nights were so hard, but we believe short term pain = long term gain and now our little boy sleeps beautifully, in his own bed, and settles himself unless he’s ill. He also settled more quickly than with the gradual retreat. Many people will say it’s cruel or even evil to let a small child cry, but I prefer to take the view that it’s empowering them to settle themselves, and will benefit them in the long run. It’s not for everyone though, good luck whatever you decide to do

@Elletine

Give it a try OP. We sleep trained at 13 months because we were losing our marbles! We tried the gradual retreat method but found it prolonged the crying as he always knew we would come back eventually, so he cried louder and longer despite the intervals getting longer and longer.

In the end, CIO worked for us - after about 3 nights. Those 3 nights were so hard, but we believe short term pain = long term gain and now our little boy sleeps beautifully, in his own bed, and settles himself unless he’s ill. He also settled more quickly than with the gradual retreat. Many people will say it’s cruel or even evil to let a small child cry, but I prefer to take the view that it’s empowering them to settle themselves, and will benefit them in the long run. It’s not for everyone though, good luck whatever you decide to do

Gosh this was exactly it. He knows that we will come back to soothe him so repeatedly going in only prolonged the whole waking period. And it would be just a vicious cycle of him crying, one of us going in, leaving the room to hear him crying even more loudly, then going in again after a while... I have no idea now what intervals to go in.

Glad to hear the CIO method worked for you. Must have been torture to hear baby crying for 3 nights. How long did your DC cry for by the way?

I'd rather not co sleep at this stage as he would just want to feed nonstop when next to me, and I wouldn't be able to sleep well that way. Understand it works for some, but not for us (well, me).

@Snowpaw

I sleep trained my child around that age - I went in every 3 minutes to reassure and soothe. The first time I tried it was before her afternoon nap. It took about half an hour of going in every three minutes. That night I was fearing it would be the same again but she didn’t even cry for three minutes so I never went in again, and since then she has very rarely ever needed any help going to sleep - it was almost an instant fix. Like she just needed that push to help her realise she would be fine on her own. I was able to have my evenings back. It changed my life, truly. She was happier as she was sleeping well too. I think it’s a good age to sleep train as they have a lot more verbal understanding than smaller babies and can be reassured with words - we read a book about mummy’s “never being far away” and being able to repeat that phrase to her helped I think.

Glad it worked a treat for you! I'll see what happens tonight but doubt it will be smooth sailing...

@pinksquash13 thanks, I will check out that book.

I think sleep training works but it sounds like you need a plan to stick to. It seems you've been quite inconsistent in your approach. For sleep training to work both parents have to be on the same page and agree what times you will go in and what you will do to provide comfort. You also have to consider the child. I went in every 6 minutes with my daughter, lay her back down, kissed her cheek and left the room whereas with my son, if I went in at the six minute mark, it used to make him worse, so we went to 15 minutes. I would find a sleep training approach you are happy with and you generally have to give it at least 14 days before you give up. At that age, three days isn't enough to establish a routine. It's tough to begin with but so worth it once your all sleeping through. Good luck

It doesn't work for us at all. He gets hysterical and sobs and then takes hours to calm down.

@mizzles, a somewhat dick comment! It's each to their own and what is considered a success is their personal achievement. Every child is different.

@nameisnotimportant thanks for the suggestion. Yes we do need to stick to a more consistent plan I think. Part of the problem has been that I kept feeling torn between tending to him for a prolonged period so that he'll calm down and try to sleep and going in briefly and then leave him to cry in hysterics.

Good point to figure out an interval that might work better. In our case I think a longer interval might be more effective, otherwise it feels like we're just leaving him hanging, crying while waiting for us to return again. When you did the 15 min intervals with your son, how long did it take him to finally fall asleep I wonder?

I sleep trained DS1 at about 16 months as I was heavily pregnant with DS2 and couldn’t take it anymore

I did the Ferber controlled crying method. So leaving for 3 mins; back in for 2 rubbing back etc and then out for 6 mins, back in for 2 mins, out for 9 mins etc

The first night we got up to about 12 mins before he settled but each night it reduced

You do have to be consistent though otherwise you’re giving mixed signals

I also found it helpful to say certain things so it was like a cue to go to sleep. So I always said I love you, go to sleep now and then left the room

I agree definitely do what works for you. My son was only six months when we trained him and it was the second time we sleep trained, so it worked within two days and only took about an hour each evening for him to fall asleep. I was a lot more behind the process because I knew if we were consistent that it worked, whereas with my daughter I felt so guilty for letting her cry and kept wanting to give up. I think because your son is older and because you have been doing conflicting strategies that it may take you a bit longer for it to work. If consistent though it does work and I am a much better mother when I have had sleep, so I try to ignore the whole don't sleep train your baby brigade because I am not very nice when I don't sleep and it was much more beneficial to all of us to have some sleep. Decide what you need to make your family work and flourish and then stick to your plan and be confident in your decision to sleep train because you know what's best for you and your child

Sounds like you've just proved the research right - that although sleep training usually has an effect in the short term, there is no evidence of long term benefits.

www.basisonline.org.uk/files/2021/03/210322-Basis-Sleep-Training.pdf

“Sleep training” isn’t great. If you would usually comfort your child when they are crying during the day then you should also comfort them at night. Yes, you’re tired, but your baby doesn’t stop needing you.