Sick of staff abusing the system

[Stiltonloving]

Local authority

Staff member breaching conduct policy yet HR happy to pay on full sick pay once off sick even after said staff member admitted lying about reason for off sick as they didn’t want to attend a conduct meeting.
Said staff member also needs “supporting” for mental health needs etc. And need to “tread carefully”.

Why oh why do the public sector not realise how demoralising it all is and stamps out any others being motivate to practise good behaviour. Including the wastage of millions of tax payers money on this crap.

This is one person.

How do you know so much about the situation?

Do your own job, take your own salary.

Don't ascribe to others, motives meaner than your own.

Tread carefully can also be code for “we will be managing this person out” because mental health issues are protected characteristics. I worked with a man who claimed he had sexually harassed a colleague because he was suffering from anxiety. 🙄 These cases are frustrating because you know they’re playing the system, but at the same time it will eventually catch up with them.

If it's a Local Authority and they've been there over 5 years, it's 6 months full, 6 months half pay anyway and a sliding scale down for under 5 years service. It certainly was the case when I worked for one (for many years) and my OH still works for one and it's the case there.

HR aren't deciding to pay them this, it's in their employment terms and conditions.

I worked in the NHS and there were two people in my department who blatantly played the system and even joked about it. One took frequent holidays abroad while on sick leave (she was off for a full year). You are right it was totally demoralising for the rest of us in the department who worked long hours and were knackered.

@stonebrambleboy really feel for you. I am going in today to cover the slack while said member of staff will be in the pub garden.

We all know as have seen WhatsApp messages but apparently management can’t use these as proof.

It’s worse as it’s conduct AND sickness they could be done for but switch between both to avoid any disciplinary action being possible

There is always someone not doing as they should and taking advantage. I learned many years ago to just get in with my job. I couldn't cope with the stress of ducking and diving and I wouldn't want a crap reputation. It is annoying but best just get in with your own stuff.

This is happening more and more in teaching. Teachers who are underperforming are challenged and sometimes put on capability plan. They then go off sick and get full pay for 6 months. They then negotiate a settlement and leave, all costing the school huge amounts of money as quite often it's teachers who have been teaching for a long time and are on the top pay scales. This year we have had two people doing this, costing us approx £200k in total as we also have to pay for supply cover. This is children's money and is becoming something that's crippling school budgets. Also, some members of staff are known to be saying things like "if they make me do x (part of their job) I'll go out sick."

There will always be people who exploit others. Its unfair and infuriating sometimes. Some are illegal some are dodgy and some are just immoral.

OP's colleague taking the piss.
Thieves.
Rich fat cat bosses.
Ex politicians in ££££ roles.
Modern slavery.

You will never change a selfish greedy bastard. All you can do is stick to your own ethics and principles so you know you can face yourself in the mirror.

I get it OP but don't let it change you.

You are right. It is demoralising.

It might be shitty management, it might be management ‘managing him out’, or it might be local government employment terms and conditions that shouldn’t exist in a modern workplace.

Still demoralising for everyone else.

You see this all the time. It's frustrating when you are an honest person. There's not much that you can do other than accepting it and knowing that you can sleep well at night!

Just to counter the PP, I have worked in schools for 10+ years and only known one person do as described. They left pretty sharpish when a settlement was negotiated too.

OP are you a manager or colleague? It's hell to manage if you're a manager as the protected characteristic doesn't seem to require any proof. So someone can throw tables and chairs about and then claim it's due to PTSD, HR dept runs scared and will not do anything, even when it's very obvious that some of the behavior is calculated. Funny how these people are canny enough to not do anything that would get them sacked on the spot.
In colleagues I've noticed it creates a 'if you can't beat em join em' attitude and behavior as a whole gets progressively worse.

@ThisIsNotARealAvo

This is happening more and more in teaching. Teachers who are underperforming are challenged and sometimes put on capability plan. They then go off sick and get full pay for 6 months. They then negotiate a settlement and leave, all costing the school huge amounts of money as quite often it's teachers who have been teaching for a long time and are on the top pay scales. This year we have had two people doing this, costing us approx £200k in total as we also have to pay for supply cover. This is children's money and is becoming something that's crippling school budgets. Also, some members of staff are known to be saying things like "if they make me do x (part of their job) I'll go out sick."

In my experience, while actually dismissing a teacher is difficult, starting the process is not.

All you need to start capability proceedings is one poor lesson. And all you need to teach a poor lesson is for someone to believe it to be a poor lesson.

When this happened to me I was observed last lesson on a Friday with a difficult year 10 class. Too right I went off sick.

I hear you. My current employer gives no sick pay beyond ssp. It stops this but also means people come in with all sorts or cant pay bills.
This is the financial services industry in 2021. Nice

Just to counter the PP, I have worked in schools for 10+ years and only known one person do as described.

I've done nearly 20 years and only known one person take the piss like that.

Nobody knows what is going on in someone else's life. Just because at the moment you are happy and healthy doesn't mean you will never be sick.

It seems mad to me that people are so keen to get rid of the rights which protect them too.

@opentheclose - same thing happened to me. It devastated me and had a massive effect on me - yes I was “off sick” but I was destroyed mentally by the process. I wasn’t sitting at home with my feet up chuckling to myself.

I’d have loved to have been in working. It also arsed up my maternity pay because I had to resign, so I feel no guilt over taking three months off in eighteen years teaching.

You have a point, OP. My work dealing with local authorities quite a lot, and it's a bit of a standing joke how often the personnel seem to change because they're constantly going off sick. It results in pretty crap performance of the functions the local council tax payers are paying for.

You will never change a selfish greedy bastard. All you can do is stick to your own ethics and principles so you know you can face yourself in the mirror
That's certainly the case. What's infuriating is that the system supports them, meaning that more and more employers don't fight them and agree to what demands they make, encouraging others to do the same when seeing the outcome and leaving those with principles and morals picking up the slack.

As always, when a system is introduced to support vulnerable people, and rightly so, it creates an opportunity for those people to use it to their advantage. Sadly, these people populate and sometimes take over the genuinely vulnerable so that the system becomes about them.

I’m currently off sick with chronic pain. I know I’ll be being talked about at work as there’s another colleague who suffers far worse than me and is frequently off, and she gets called all sorts. To manage my pain, I walk a lot - no doubt you’d think I was living the life of Riley too.

This year we have had two people doing this

Good for them. I wouldn’t want to be bullied out by you either.

There are always people that take advantage

Yes it does impact teams working together especially through covid it caused real resentment.

I work in the NHS many staff have worked so hard unfortunately we also have had staff that have taken advantage of a situation where it’s easy to take time off

No surprise they were the most effected by the vaccine too

There are problems in all sectors with people who take the proverbial. Whether or not this is the case here isn't up to us, but nor is it up to you. If you have legitimate complaints yourself, follow the policy. Put in a grievance. If you don't like working for the "lax" public sector, then find yourself a better job somewhere else.

BTW - we frequently use social media posts to sack people. Don't assume that just because HR appear to be doing nothing, that they are doing nothing. They should not even be discussing it with you, and nor should your managers. So you should have no idea what they are doing.

I think it’s more of an issue in the public sector (I don’t think this is just in the UK either

I don’t think the op needs to find another job the issue should be recognised

Its almost impossible for to sack anyone in the NHS the amount who slack or take advantage is really quite a problem (and not a new one)