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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Body Cams to be worn by A and E staff?

18 replies

Chipanzee · 14/04/2021 10:43

How would you feel about this?

One pro is it may reduce abuse on staff (and may also lead to better staff behaviour in some cases too). I can see pros and cos for both staff and patient safety

but

There's so much that has happened to me previously that I just wouldn't want on camera or to be filmed and I do worry about privacy breeches too (particularly if filming another patient and there's someone in the background etc).

Really hope they start providing PJ bottoms in A and E if they do get through the trial phase and into real life - really unfair to have people walking around with their bums hanging out when they are potentially being filmed.

YABU - Body Cams worn by A and E staff are not acceptable
YANBU - Totally fine and will improve the A and E experience.

OP posts:

rainbowthoughts · 14/04/2021 10:47

Is this something that's being considered or something you are pondering?

Original poster

Chipanzee · 14/04/2021 10:48

Well they are testing the "fit" of the camera in staff pockets but it does say that it's not being tested for use by staff - it has naturally got me pondering though!

OP posts:

TrainWhistleChoir · 14/04/2021 10:50

The security staff I know who wear body cams have to tell the person they're going to speak to that they are using the body cam, before they start talking. I'd have concerns about how parties can consent in this situation. Presumably this is in relation to staff being assaulted by people they're trying to treat?

XenoBitch · 14/04/2021 10:50

I don't think it is a good idea. A&E staff are not law enforcement and don't need to have camera on them to record evidence etc.
On a practical level, how would they be worn? A lot of A&E staff wear scrubs, not a stab vest with all the clips that these things attach to.
If a patient is kicking off, security get called and they tend to have their own body cams anyway.

TrainWhistleChoir · 14/04/2021 10:51

Security in hospitals probably wear them but they don't record until you switch it on, and you have to tell the other party that you've switched it on.

Iwantacookie · 14/04/2021 10:52

On one hand I can see how it could be unnerving being filmed when you are in hospital it's not like it's going to be streamed on Netflix and if it protects the staff and makes them feel safer in work then it's just something we have to accept.
If the footage needed to be looked at it would surely only be done by the police so not something to worry about imho.

Ponoka7 · 14/04/2021 10:53

Ambulance staff were trialed with them in 2016. Some have kept them, I don't know if all did. So did Staff in MH units. They cut down on complaints, improved staff performance and made patients feel safer. They also were used in training. The training part worries me though. People drop out of training and no longer have to abide by confidentiality. I worry about data breaches and whose watching them. It also takes away the ability of doctors to decide to not report some crime. I could see the usefulness when dealing with drunk/drug patients. But then I doubt that they'd be a deterrent.

Chickenlickeninthepot · 14/04/2021 10:53

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when A&E workers are obviously at that much risk of assault that they need body cams.

Ponoka7 · 14/04/2021 10:55

"If the footage needed to be looked at it would surely only be done by the police "

If you made a complaint then it would be looked at by various people, starting with PALS, then legal teams etc.

user1636853246842157 · 14/04/2021 10:57

Cool. So if I wear one as a patient it will finally mean staff arent allowed to get away with abusing me anymore?

Angrypregnantlady · 14/04/2021 10:57

A&E staff get alot of abuse, so I agree it's a good idea. It's actually good for a lot of things, police brutality at hospital, evidence of domestic abuse, evidence of what or wasn't said, what consent was or wasn't given.

I've been in hospital alot of times, never wandered about with my bum out or seen anyone else's bum. I thought that was just a silly American TV joke.

Ponoka7 · 14/04/2021 11:00

Yes, from around 2016. There were various NHS Staff given them. Some departments kept them. The problem is that they can be switched off.

In the case of Mzee Mohammed Daley, who died after being restrained by security guards, you get to see the ambulance staff standing around watching him die and no intervention. They assumed that he was on drugs and being a young black male, didn't help.

Original poster

Chipanzee · 14/04/2021 11:06

Hmm interesting - yeah my biggest concern would be data storage. I mean all those videos will have to be stored for a set period of time, are they going to have people wiping / blurring every other patient who may have been caught in the background out of it immediately?

It's always been a bad state of affairs for A and E staff, sadly. There is however a small minority who a hugely shit towards patients and so this would improve those patients safety too.

Im not sure i agree with cases like DV - ultimately it has to be up for a woman to be OK with reporting at all times and evidence should not be taken from a body cam unless there were minors at risk etc (complicated area, far too complicated to type in one paragraph).

I was once in an ITU department that trialled CCTV and woke up with a bloody CCTV camera above my head and two the side - thankfully they were not on but it scared the hell out of me for the 24-48 hours it took for the sedation to wear off. They had to put the non-slip socks on them in the end. It was a really unpleasant feeling to be drugged up and think you are being filmed.

OP posts:

m0therofdragons · 14/04/2021 11:07

They only turn them on if there’s a reason and they have to say “I’m now turning on the camera”. They get so much abuse and since the introduction of cameras in our a&e (security wear them rather than doctors and nurses) we’ve been able to prosecute people which previously we couldn’t. Sadly they’ve become essential.

Original poster

Chipanzee · 14/04/2021 11:09

Ah in that case it wouldn't help improve patient safety then in terms of raising issues with staff.

OP posts:

peak2021 · 14/04/2021 11:13

Sad it is necessary, just think there should be notices somewhere that may be visible to most people when they arrive (at least for those who walk in).

Mytiredeyeshaveseenenough · 14/04/2021 11:51

Good thing. Accusations of malpractice etc? Genuine. Evidence. False. Evidence.

Patients/staff being abusive or violent. Evidence.

If it improves the hospital experience for both staff and patients, then I'm all for it and frankly I expect a loss of a certain amount of privacy when I'm in hospital because it is a hospital. (Hopefully morphine is involved too)

Some form of retention protocol to allow hospitals to destroy footage past a certain timescale (this side of it may be problematic but it's something that I'm sure can be agreed on) and again, what's the issue?

This isn't a police state thing, we live in a world where medical mistakes etc happen but people will also abuse or get violent against those trying to help them.

Brainwave89 · 14/04/2021 12:06

I think there might be some areas where it might be useful, but they would be limited. My son works in A&E, 95% of interactions are good, but some can be very challenging, particularly where patients are drunk or high. He has been variously spat on, bitten, punched, kicked and threatened with a knife. So on occasion a camera might be useful. Security are present though and do have cameras, so I do not think that use by Doctors and Nurses should be routine.

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