My child has been left out of every trip and outing with the nursery

[CuriousGe]

My DC has been going to nursery for a year.

The nursery takes the children on regular outings and trips to parks, garden centres and places like that. Pictures and snippets of videos from these outings are posted on the nurseries Instagram page often.

It came to my attention that my DC has never once gone on one of these outings or gone anywhere with the nursery, but the captions on the videos state that "all children at * nursery get to experience the great outdoors with them" and other similar captions portraying inclusivity.

After another of these videos popped up on my newsfeed I sent a polite message and asked whether those trips are only scheduled on certain days as my LO hasn't had any of those opportunities yet. They read it but I got no response.

I'm aware that my DC can be quite a handful but they do have special needs, as do %80-90 of the other children at this particular nursery.

AIBU to think it's unfair to include my child in any of these trips?

@itsgettingwierd

You sound extremely reasonable and very willing to do anything you can to help. (Just an aside but a send placement cannot use inadequate staffing as a reason to exclude if it's a funded send placement).

So I think if you approach it with the attitude you have "it would really benefit my ds and I'm happy to volunteer to support nursery on trips out" it should be a good and hopefully productive conversation.

The only reason they may not take him if he's there that day is because their risk assessment shows they cannot make him safe. But again this is something you can work with them on because you know your best.

Thank you, I'm def more than happy to do what I can on my end. I'd be prepared to swap a day if needs be.

I'm going to approach them from that angle on Monday, hopefully we can come up with something.

My suspicion is, like you've suggested, they think he's not suitable / risk assessment, but I would always expect them to discuss that with me.

I'm def not going to go in all guns blazing It's just a bit sad seeing the children having these trips out and DS is never invited and I'd like to know why and if there's anything we can do to change that.

Nursery shouldn’t be excluding a child as “too disruptive” whilst simultaneously claiming that ALL the children get to go in trips.

Though they maybe haven’t responded to message yet as too busy. Could you phone them instead of waiting until Monday?

@PicaK

Just to say if they return next week then they won't be replying to your email because they're on holiday.

Fair point!

I assumed because they were active on SM they wouldn't mind the message. I'll raise it all in person on Monday.

@Saz12

Nursery shouldn’t be excluding a child as “too disruptive” whilst simultaneously claiming that ALL the children get to go in trips.

Though they maybe haven’t responded to message yet as too busy. Could you phone them instead of waiting until Monday?

I certainly could, I'll give it some thought and perhaps give them a call this afternoon.

Surely it's a case that the trips are happening on days he's not in? Otherwise you'd be dropping him off to an empty preschool if the others had all gone on a trip?! Our preschool does day trips throughout the year starting on a Monday and cycles through to Friday, to try and make sure everyone gets to go. They also allocate the slots to the children who are routinely "in" on the trip day, and then if spaces allow, they offer children who aren't in on that day to take a place with a parent attending (parent has to pay if there's a fee), so they stay within their staff/child ratios. I've gone on quite a few trips with the preschool as DD only attends a couple of days, and I don't want her to miss the trips. Could this be something you suggest?

I would wait until Tuesday. If they are off this week then they are off and your email isn’t urgent as such. They may well post on social media if they need to provide an update and haven’t but that doesn’t mean they are working. You sound very reasonable and your request of reasonable so please don’t “ruin” that by following up your email sent during a holiday week with a phone call or asking first thing Monday. If no reply by Tuesday (or giving them a whole working day to reply) then speak to them then. Your child should be included on the rotation of trips like all others and you are right to raise the issue.

Some good advice here RE how to approach it, thank you

This happens to my gd, they're on a different day than she attends, just change your child to the day they do the outings.

You sound very reasonable I hope you can get this sorted out.

I'm able to be flexible and change his day if needs be, if that's something they'll consider.

Much bettter to have it in an email as it’s timed and dated with your concern (this is true for all children but especially for children with SEN as the email can then be used as evidence if the child needs more support). By all means talk to them but afterwards send an email thanking them for listening to your concern and giving a brief outline of what was said so there’s no confusion. (Eg thanks for making time to talk to me about Xs access to school trips this morning, I’m so glad you are going to look into it and come up with a plan going forward. If I don’t hear from you can we touch base on what’s actually going to happen on Friday).

You don't mention any occasion when your DS has been at nursery alone all day, so I assume he's definitely not been excluded and trips have taken place exclusively on days he doesn't attend.

I'd also be extremely surprised if they planned their outdoor trips around your son's attendance, so... 🤷🏼‍♀️

I used to work in a nursery and Friday would always be our trip to the park day. Hopefully it's just a case of him not being there when the trips take place.

It's not the same if he is being kept at nursery when the others go on an outing

or if the outings are on days when he's not there!

Even if your DC is not going to nursery on the scheduled outing days, they can't just leave him out. It is then not fair learning for all the kids. I would definitely speak to them.
Do you think he is going on outings but just not in the pictures?
Do you know any of the other parents whose kids are not going on the same day as yours, you could ask them if they experience the same?

I'm not suggesting he has ever been left at nursery on his own.

It may be that they don't feel they can manage him on a trip.

It may be that they only go on Thursdays and Fridays.

The point is nobody has discussed anything with me so I don't know why he isn't included in the trips.

I specifically asked, in my message, whether it was the case that the trips are on certain days each week when DS is not scheduled to be in. They didn't reply and clear up any confusion.

Even if it is the case that the trips are on, say, Thursday's or Fridays.. surely it would be fair to work with parents of children who aren't in on those days, to see whether they're able to be included. Much like a PP has posted about above, with regards to the nursery they use.

It's a bit rubbish for DS, who is now starting to talk, to hear about these days out when he's at nursery but he's never invited to.

Maybe I'm projecting somewhat because I'm disappointed, who knows.

The nursery specifically claim that all of the children get to experience the trips out, and that isn't the case.

@AmyLou100

Even if your DC is not going to nursery on the scheduled outing days, they can't just leave him out. It is then not fair learning for all the kids. I would definitely speak to them. Do you think he is going on outings but just not in the pictures? Do you know any of the other parents whose kids are not going on the same day as yours, you could ask them if they experience the same?

Thank you, that's in line with my thinking.

I'm %100 sure he hasn't been on any outings, we exchange a communication book between us and the nursery which goes into detail about what he has done on any given day. There's never been a mention of leaving the nursery.

I think parents need to be made aware if their child is being taken out anyway don't they? I might be mistaken about that bit though.

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to become friendly with any of the other parents due to how pick ups and drop offs are handled in line with covid regulations. He started there in June and they've always been very strict about one in one out (parents)

Sounds sad, I'm feeling disappointed for your DS so I can only imagine what you are feeling. Definitely bring it up in person and gauge their reaction, from this you'll be able to work out the reasons. However I can't really think of a reasonable explanation as to why he hasn't been taken out

Thank you Wino

My gut feeling is that they've decided he would be too difficult to manage.

I admit he can be very challenging but challenging behaviour is part and parcel of looking after children with SEN, although he's an angel when he goes to the park!

If it is just local little trips, do you not just sign a general consent form when they start? Have you actually signed anything giving them permission to take him?

You and not unreasonable to bring this up. It's all well people finding reasons but the reality is every parent would be miffed at this if it was their own child. Yes it may be that they go on days hes not in but it's odd that they havent mentioned it to you. I'd speak to them and see what they have to say. You sound lovely. I hope its sorted for you both 😊

A lot of outings on my dc's nursery happened without prier planning. It was like, since it was a lovely day, they had a trip to the nearby park, etc. So the risk assessment is done on the day, like if they had enough staff to enable this. Also the children had to have signed consent to agree with this ad hoc event.

@QuizzlyBear

You don't mention any occasion when your DS has been at nursery alone all day, so I assume he's definitely not been excluded and trips have taken place exclusively on days he doesn't attend.

I'd also be extremely surprised if they planned their outdoor trips around your son's attendance, so... 🤷🏼‍♀️

No need to be like that - if they're claiming that all the children go on trips and the Ops son is never included she's allowed to raise it with them. He won't be the only child who doesn't attend 5 days a week so likely other children are also missing out.

The problem child might not be your son, it might be another child who comes the same days as yours. I agree you should talk about it to the nursery. It’s fair enough if they can’t manage your son on trips but they should communicate this with you, and give you the opportunity to bring him yourself to join them.

"Also if your dc has additional needs is it possible for them to adequately staff it?"

If staffing is a problem they should be applying for extra support for him. All the children at ds's school have behavioural difficulties and they all go offsite.
It is poor practice to decide to not take a child and not have a conversation with the child's parents about it.