If each country had a two child policy

[Blackcat21]

Just an idea and my opinion, and fully aware I will probably get flamed for this.

The population is rising, not shrinking, and with that is coming ridiculous house prices, global warming, running low on natural resources and foods.

Health services are stretched and school classes are increasingly full.

Wouldn’t an solution to this be only letting per couple or mother/father have two biological children each.

I must admit, it does annoy me when some women go on to have 3rd, 4th child etc just because “they want to” or want a large family, love being with children or love being a mother.

Motherhood is a beautiful thing but it could be restricted to two biological children only.

Overpopulation is impacting the earth too much.

If this couple wanted more children they can adopt.
There are thousands of children in the U.K. and other countries each year wanting to be adopted.

Doing this could possibly tackle overpopulation but increase the adoption of children.

Obviously I’m aware there is problems of how to monitor this, what if a woman gets pregnant against her will, accidental pregnancies etc but not that is the not the point or idea I’m trying to get across right now.

AIBU to think this could be a good approach?

Interesting idea but unenforceable.

Education and the reduction in poverty are the two best ways I think to reduce average family size. And by education I include equipping women with advice as to the signs of coercive control and domestic violence/abuse so they can escape this and even better still recognise such men earlier. I also include education of men in basic respect of women and the responsibilities they should have. This country should never be led by a man who does not even publicly acknowledge all of his own children.

Very important especially that of the men @peak2021

How do we apply this logic to those feckless fathers who decide to have multiple kids with different woman?

Yes to this. The focus is always on women but realistically, in the space of nine months, a woman can only produce one pregnancy (for the purposes of the example she continues the pregnancy and it ends in a live birth). In the space of that same nine months, presuming one sexual partner per week, a man can produce 40 pregnancies. The reproductive window for women is finite too, even in the unlikely event of a woman having a successful pregnancy every year from age 18 to 45 that's 27 children/people however in the same period a man - again at a rate of one partner per week - could produce 1404 children/people.

Let's not get distracted by blaming the three/four child families for killing the planet (and I speak as someone who has two). If the oil companies sorted out their act and stopped extracting fossil fuels we'd have much less of an issue.

The thing I'd be very happy to be rationed on would be flights. One/two flights per person per year, after that taxed enormously to discourage the frequent flyers

Have you even looked into the issues China had with their one child policy?

Ok so i have dd from a previous relationship and pregnant with my husbands first.

Can we only have this one together? Or would he be able to impregnate another woman so he can have 'his two' kids?

What about children that already exist, say 3 or more siblings in care. Would they need to be seperated to be adopted? Even if a family wanted to adopt them all?

Are you vegan op?

I'm interested that I have pissed you off @VladimirsPoutine, and would like to ask why? I had one child, late (I was 43) and never managed another. How does that equate to owning a big fuck off 4 x 4 SUV? Which I haven't, for the record.

"I must admit, it does annoy me when some women go on to have 3rd, 4th child etc just because “they want to” or want a large family, love being with children or love being a mother." Are these women getting pregnant all by themselves?

Agree with others that it is not the answer.

Agree with excellent post from peak2021. Education is key.

Generally if you want to stop women having lots of babies you can encourage them (and facilitate) their getting married (into permanent/long term relationships) later - giving the women education opportunities etc and good work opportunities etc.

And men need these chances too, of course.

Unfortunately we have the opposite problem here and in most Western countries. Not enough children are being born to go on to support the increasingly aging population.
Combined with Brexit and the lack of international support workers, etc. it’s going to become a big problem in 10/20 years.

Vlad'sPoutine is mixing and matching irrelevant comparisons. Even at basic maths, you are not comparing like with like.

Even if it was a good idea, how on earth would you enforce it? Forced abortion? Withdrawal of maternity care for a 3rd child? Forced adoption once the child was born? Imprisonment of the parents? No they'd just take away child benefit. Totally unworkable.

@XingMing That's the point. Mine, or your reproductive (in)activity won't do anything to address global wealth / resource inequality hence the comparison to the 4x4. Me not owning a fuck-off car isn't going to make Shell reconsider their impact on fragile ecosystems.

Three of my siblings have no children.
Our six can be donated/distributed out, I assume.

I’m adopted, as is my sister whom I grew up with. I also want to adopt in the future. Adoption is not a replacement for a birth child. Adopted children have been through severe trauma and almost always have lasting issues around attachment, stress in Utero, sometimes conditions like FASD, trauma disorders and more. Adopting is a wonderful thing to do, but it’s a difficult journey that requires very different parenting skills. You parent therapeutically, not however you feel suits you as you would with a birth child. You might well see disturbed behaviour, deal with very sad memories or emotion that’s really tough in a child, low self-esteem and sometimes that child will NEVER fully love you back in the same way. My sister can’t love in the same way, she can’t give like that because of her attachment disorder, she can’t truly empathise and struggles to do anything most adults do (go out with friends, have hobbies outside the house, rent a house, have a job etc.). Not everyone can adopt, in fact some parents are turned down for a multitude of reasons.

It really upsets and angers me when people refer to it as some alternative to other people wanting further kids. Number one, we adoptees are not there to make other people feel better. Number two, we are not the lovely unharmed babies you merrily spring forth, we often experienced abuse right from when we grew in the womb, we often saw abuse after we were born, were exposed to drugs or alcohol, experienced starvation and emotional neglect. Adoptees need real security and care from those educated about all of that trauma. Sometimes, adoptees don’t cope with the other children in the family and sometimes the other children struggle to cope. Sometimes, because of their trauma, they will be violent towards parents or siblings.

Adoption isn’t a blasé, ‘I can’t have kids’ choice. Yes, infertility leads some couples to consider it, but it is not a simple solution and it cannot be done easily. It’s offensive to suggest you can adopt to reduce people giving birth. Oh, and you’d be increasing the adoption rate as babies to families with more than 2 children would be born, so you’d risk ending up with awful institutions, overrun foster carers, people killing a newborn to not be discovered etc. It’s a disgusting plan. And next time, when you feel like mentioning adoption, try to actually learn something about it first. We adoptees aren’t like blooming orphan Annie, we’re real complex human beings who need real support, often lots of therapy and come with plenty of baggage that we need help from our parents to work out. I was lucky, I had some early attachments and am now a happy mum of my own children, but it was a rough ride. My sister hasn’t been so lucky, she had no stable early caregiver for months after birth and may now never develop proper attachments to people. Silly comments about ‘everyone could just adopt’ are not helpful in the slightest.

Excellent post

No it’s not a good approach

What happens if a couple have two kids, split up and both new partners don’t have kids, but want them?

Just see what happens in China, babies abandoned as they are the wrong sex, and so on

We would soon have a population crisis in the other direction - an aging population and too few younger people to support it. This is already a problem in many developed countries such as Italy, Japan etc.

The practicalities of actually enforcing such a law would also take into incredibly dark and barbaric territory that I never want to see in this country, or any country.

If there was a 2 child rule then we wouldn't have had The Sound of Music. The hills would not be alive with the sound of music. We could not climb every mountain or do-re-mi or sing about our favourite things to get us through thunderstorms. I would not have confidence in me as I'd have no one to sing edelweiss to and I'd have to run away with the lonely goatherd.

Okay, so you think forcing abortions is a good thing then?

How exactly are you planning to enforce this rule? What about all the people that want 1 or none?

So let's say the population artificially drops because you have enforced this rule. You would have to completely overhaul the economy for a start. There would be no one to look after or pay for us in our retirement, we would all have to work until we drop. People would abandon their babies, mothers would be forced to have abortions or give birth in secret. If you are enforcing this globally, then places will have gendered preferences, probably leading to a lot of baby girls being killed.

It is a policy that China tested. It failed.

I don't know if a blanket mandatory policy is the answer, but I too do not understand why couples have 4,5,6 children. So, I do agree with you in that sense.

Overpopulation and overconsumption are two huge drivers of climate change, although the latter, apparently, contributes "more", although they feed each other, without one there isn't the other and vice versa. Also, wealthier countries, using the resources and destroying poorer countries are hugely to blame. Businesses need to take much more responsibility.

With regard the op. I think you've got a point. I don't think I law should be in place but incentives to have fewer children would be good.

I agree with this really. I think there are two issues here, the global population issue which I think we in the UK can do little about and the UK population issue. I personally think we have too high a population in the UK for a decent standard of living. We're unhealthy generally with an overwhelmed health service and there are too many people competing for decently paid jobs.

I don't understand the whole 'elderly generation are the problem argument'. All children cost a lot of money when young (maternity care, medical care, education etc) and many children and young people cost huge amounts of money because of medical care (isn't that new cystic fibrosis drug going to cost £500,000 + per patient per year?), or extra physical or educational needs. Very very few people are actually paying for the full cost of the services they are receiving so I think most are deluding themselves that they or their children will be supporting the elderly.

@peak2021 excellent post. around the world when Education levels rise fertility rates fall I believe.

Very very few people are actually paying for the full cost of the services they are receiving so I think most are deluding themselves that they or their children will be supporting the elderly.

Do you understand how taxes work?