Aibu to hope that this is the start of a major backlash against SUVs?

[gingganggooleywotsit]

Just seen this on the BBC news website.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56647128
It’s the first time I’ve ever seen anyone in motoring speak out publicly against suvs. I pray this is the start of a major backlash and rightly so! Before anyone says..”you’re jealous” as I usually see on these threads, I would just like to say-I could afford one myself but I wouldn’t be seen dead in one!
Also I am only talking about city suvs. In the countryside/farming it’s of course a different matter.

I have a Land Rover but live in a town. We go camping and also have a roof rack - is that even worse? It fits in everything we need and has 7 seats so no need for 2 cars when the grandparents come along anywhere (in normal times). It works for us.

I don't really think that "small cars" are 0articulatky greener in cities - we shouldn't be encouraging the idea that some cars are good in cities at all. Yet this country has spectacularly awful public transport including into cities. Its also expensive. Thats the real problem. I hate this attitude that 0eople are being environmentally friendly because they drive a small car that they throw away after 5 years.

This givernment also made it illegal to tow wuth anything less highly rated than a large 4 x 4, so presumably anyone with horses that might ever need taken to the vets who works in a city should have two vehicles.

And why should a 20 year old 4 x 4 which is still going strong and meets emissions standards be replaced by a newer small car which will likely be scrapped after 12 years or so?

People living in Aberdeen who diby have 4 x 4s are currently finding it impossible to drive short distances from the countryside to the city due to drifting snow. We don't all live in Croydon or Sussex.

Why does there always have to be a "backlash" over anything due to the perceived politics of envy?

@GreenlandTheMovie

I don't really think that "small cars" are 0articulatky greener in cities - we shouldn't be encouraging the idea that some cars are good in cities at all. Yet this country has spectacularly awful public transport including into cities. Its also expensive. Thats the real problem. I hate this attitude that 0eople are being environmentally friendly because they drive a small car that they throw away after 5 years.

This givernment also made it illegal to tow wuth anything less highly rated than a large 4 x 4, so presumably anyone with horses that might ever need taken to the vets who works in a city should have two vehicles.

And why should a 20 year old 4 x 4 which is still going strong and meets emissions standards be replaced by a newer small car which will likely be scrapped after 12 years or so?

People living in Aberdeen who diby have 4 x 4s are currently finding it impossible to drive short distances from the countryside to the city due to drifting snow. We don't all live in Croydon or Sussex.

Why does there always have to be a "backlash" over anything due to the perceived politics of envy?

The OP wasn't talking about the people living in the countryside who does need cars like these. She was talking about city-SUV's.

Also, nobody has said we should get small cars and throw them away after 5 years. Not sure why you would think anyone thinks that's a good idea.

I don’t really get it. My Q7 takes up no more room than our 3 series estate. It’s just taller.

My husband had several. We live in a London suburb but he worked out in the country and had to travel to manage jobs in rural places which involved unmade roads, etc. I remember one time a few years back when my son went up there with him to do some IT work and went out on a job with him for some fresh air; he was in his own car following dad, got stuck in mud and snow and husband had to back up to tow him out - which was easy.

I 'get' what you are saying but such cars certainly have their uses. I must admit I haven't noticed that many but I am not a very observant person, couldn't even tell you what cars my next door neighbours have.

What I liked about the Range Rovers was they seemed substantial, I felt safe in them. I'm a nervous traveller.

I really hope so, I hate them. It's not just they are polluting (I know some are now electric) but they take up too much room on the road (you can't get past when you'd be able to get past a smaller car) and they take up too much room in car parks.

People say they need them to feel safe but my small car has 5 stars in crash tests.

I also agree with the pp who said it's not just SUVs but cars generally. We have to get over the hatred of cyclists and our car-reliant culture. It's not cyclists who cause traffic jams, it's drivers in cars doing stupidly short journeys.

when these first came out they were a joke, a 'fake fourbefour' that was neither use nor ornament. I don't know at what point they actually became a status symbol.

I don't care what a car looks like but I do care about practicality. It is becoming much harder to buy anything practical because of these pointless gas guzzlers. The boot opening is too narrow to get stuff in, they are unstable due to the height, they are too wide for many spaces and they are stuffed with useless distracting gadgets.

I know the high up position does work for some, but I test drove one and the visibility and sightlines were awful. Design disaster if you actually want to see what you are doing. No wonder they need all the bad driver electronic aids.

the main issue is the fuel guzzling due to weight and bad design.

yes, I drive - semi rural village so a bus every two hours daytime only to one destination. I try very hard to minimise my driving. Unlike the school-run mums in the village, outside the school for 30 mins each afternoon, engine running and face glued to brick phone. Don't tell me they have been to work!

@ShutUpAlex

I don’t really get it. My Q7 takes up no more room than our 3 series estate. It’s just taller.

It is bigger all round. It’s also heavier and potentially more polluting.

But this is the point all SUV’s are not equal and a lot are built on the same platforms as non suvs.
Some are 2wd and small engined so not hugely polluting just a small car pumped up.

The q8 is frankly laughable to even consider driving it down a country lane.

SUV is quite a broad range of cars these days it's not just giant Chelsea Tractors
I think people should choose cars to suit circumstances better but I think the argument is more nuanced than we should ban this or that.
The problem is the media / general public don't tend to deal with nuance very well.
I caveat this with the fact that we do have 2 SUVs so can def see the appeal and benefits - we live in the countryside, they have been used off-road for work and one of them is fully electric.
The driving position was a key component of choosing cars last time as finding to accommodate me (a disabled short arse with severe hip problems) and tall DH was a real issue and although we did look at other cars there weren't many that could do this and fit the electric car criteria we wanted.
My favourite car I ever owned was a tiny old style Toyota Yaris - unfortunately they no longer did that one when I could no longer cope with the clutch and the kids were getting increasingly squashed in it (DS1 is now teenage and adult sized). It was great in town and I would hate if we still lived in a city to drive anything much bigger.

I've always lived in the countryside and we have always had a small car. Why would you have something huge on narrow country roads?

Yep, it's a nightmare on country roads to try and get past an SUV, or to have them whizzing around the corner presumably either unaware of the size of their vehicle, or the fact that they are taking up a fair portion of the width of the road with no thought to anyone else who then has to wheel as far as they can into the bushes to let them past. They aren't good on farms either, far better vehicles for the terrain and to carry out the kind of work they require.

We had a juke before that was just a micra on stilts

@Sansaplans

I've always lived in the countryside and we have always had a small car. Why would you have something huge on narrow country roads?

Yep, it's a nightmare on country roads to try and get past an SUV, or to have them whizzing around the corner presumably either unaware of the size of their vehicle, or the fact that they are taking up a fair portion of the width of the road with no thought to anyone else who then has to wheel as far as they can into the bushes to let them past. They aren't good on farms either, far better vehicles for the terrain and to carry out the kind of work they require.

I have a small car for this reason. School run can be and is frequently down some single track lanes. I live in an affluent area so inevitably meet a shiny new car (a lot of the time 4wds) coming the other way and it’s always me who have to ditch or reverse into the bumpy rubbish filled giveaway with bushes brushing up against my car.

Swedish k, its not just big cars they are trying to discourage in places like London, its all cars, they are blocking off streets to encourage more walking and cycling for all

But they're not safer,

They're more prone to roll over,
Longer braking zone due to higher mass,
Higher front end means the impact with another vehicle can more easily override the engine and crumple zones of the other vehicle,
Reduced side and rearward visibility (look up back over deaths),
Reduced visibility for other road users
Psychology, drivers feeling they're protected gives rise to poorer driving standards, especially with the 'look down effect' perception of safety and superiority

Compared to a small hatch-back on balance they're safer for the occupants, but not much else

By all means buy one because you like it, but objectively on safety it's wrong to say they're safer.

We have an SUV and a hatchback, footprint wise the SUV is only a couple of mm wider/longer so the only main difference is the height which affects literally no-one on the road - I don't understand why so many people get their knickers in a twist if I'm honest.

SwedishK The OP wasn't talking about the people living in the countryside who does need cars like these. She was talking about city-SUV's.

Plenty of people live in the countryside and drive into urban areas for work. And why should people who can't afford to live in the countryside be denied 4 x 4s? I use mine as a camper-car with all the rear seats folded down to make a sleeping area. I know, not popular in this country but it is elsewhere. Saves me loads of money, means I've been able to go on trips and socially distance when it was allowed during the pandemic.

Also, nobody has said we should get small cars and throw them away after 5 years. Not sure why you would think anyone thinks that's a good idea.

But small cars do tend to have a shorter lifespan than luxury 4 x 4s. I have a 21 year old Mercedes M class (see above) that might well keep going for another 10 years, if not more. Thats much more environmentally friendly than 2 small cars which only last 10 or 12 years (or even less) each.

People also need to get out of their cars full stop in cities and cycle, walk or take public transport more. The government needs to stop building massive new housing estates on the edge of villages with no paths or bike routes to link them to faciities, and to stop building out of town retail parks that people drive to and instead encourage smaller local supermarkets and mixed shopping hubs. As in The Netherlands. Its just that theres more profit for government and local authority cronies in not getting planning right.

If it's about space and ecological impact then imho suvs stil fare well compared to some sedans nowadays.
qashqai (most popular suv apparently)
4,394 mm L x 1,806 mm W x 1,590-1,595 mm H
Vs
Ford fiesta (the most popular sedan apparently)
4,040-4,068 mm L x 1,735 mm W x 1,466-1,495 mm H

And throw in some standard non suv Audi a4 for good measure because I seee quite lots of audis lately.
4,762-4,770 mm L x 1,847 mm W x 1,428-1,435 mm H

Cars in general are getting wider and longer.

Thanks pps for answering my q about the people carrier!

@GreenlandTheMovie

SwedishK The OP wasn't talking about the people living in the countryside who does need cars like these. She was talking about city-SUV's.

Plenty of people live in the countryside and drive into urban areas for work. And why should people who can't afford to live in the countryside be denied 4 x 4s? I use mine as a camper-car with all the rear seats folded down to make a sleeping area. I know, not popular in this country but it is elsewhere. Saves me loads of money, means I've been able to go on trips and socially distance when it was allowed during the pandemic.

Also, nobody has said we should get small cars and throw them away after 5 years. Not sure why you would think anyone thinks that's a good idea.

But small cars do tend to have a shorter lifespan than luxury 4 x 4s. I have a 21 year old Mercedes M class (see above) that might well keep going for another 10 years, if not more. Thats much more environmentally friendly than 2 small cars which only last 10 or 12 years (or even less) each.

People also need to get out of their cars full stop in cities and cycle, walk or take public transport more. The government needs to stop building massive new housing estates on the edge of villages with no paths or bike routes to link them to faciities, and to stop building out of town retail parks that people drive to and instead encourage smaller local supermarkets and mixed shopping hubs. As in The Netherlands. Its just that theres more profit for government and local authority cronies in not getting planning right.

It's usually cheaper to live in the countryside than in the cities, so I don't know how you could afford the city but not the countryside. The reason people in the city shouldn't have these massive cars is because they don't need them. If they need to drive off-road once a year on their holiday then they can rent a car for that. The rest of the year they should choose more environmentally friendly options. This country is not built for these huge cars. Our roads are not like in the US, neither are our car parks. The less of them around, the better for everyone.

The lifespan of the car is to do with mileage, not age. There are well built small cars and well built large cars. I have an 11 year old Mini which is still running fine and I have no reason to replace as it's still got plenty of life left in it. Not sure why you think small cars have to be destroyed after 5 years. If you don't drive much, they last much longer.

@Macncheeseballs

Swedish k, its not just big cars they are trying to discourage in places like London, its all cars, they are blocking off streets to encourage more walking and cycling for all

Yes, even better! I think large cars pose more of a risk to pedestrians with it's poor visibility so if they could go first that would be great. Especially around schools where the people are smaller.

@GreenlandTheMovie
"But small cars do tend to have a shorter lifespan than luxury 4 x 4s."
But do they?
I had my Toyota Yaris for 14yrs and then sold it to my neighbour who still has it now
In that time it's needed no major repairs and is still going strong. (I loved it but needed an automatic and more space for the kids)
Our LandRover DS as much as I like it is nowhere near as reliable and although we'll keep it for a long time I doubt it'll be in as good nick as the Yaris is at nearly 18yrs old.

@Macncheeseballs

You don't need a car in a city like London, let alone an suv

I'm in London and outside of lockdown couldn't do 24 hours without my car. Have a think 🤔 not everybody has the same choices and privileges you perhaps do

We have an SUV and live in the London suburbs.

We need a car at the moment, and we're a tall family. We physically cannot fit all four of us in a smaller car, believe me we tried. We had a smaller car that was fine when it was just three of us. When baby 2 came along my husband was no longer able to fit into the drivers seat ... he could barely fit into the passenger seat either.

I hope we don't end up being fined or penalised for being tall... it happens enough already.