AIBU to take this so personally?

[cobbleddream]

I am due to qualify as an AHP shortly and have trained at one Trust for all 3 years of my degree. I am a very mature student, this is a complete career change for me. I have loved my course, and excelled both academically and on clinical placement.... or so I thought.

I have applied for a job at the Trust I've trained, and also a couple of other local ones. Yesterday jobs were being offered (a few vacancies) and I have not been offered one, not been turned down yet either. I am gutted, I feel like 4 years of study and very hard work have been tainted, and I am clearly not cut out for this, as the one place who has known me for so long has said they don't want to employ me in effect.

Other students who have worked much less, been continually late and have very poor patient care have got offers. I have always been punctual, done all my hours, passed everything and had continual excellent feedback from everyone I worked with (this is a daily thing we have to record too).

I am so sad, and trying to be a grown up about it and be logical. The stupid thing is, I work as bank at another Trust in a related field and that is my preferred Trust anyway, their application process is still ongoing. But I still feel like I've had a kick in the teeth from where I've trained and it is making me question whether I should ever have done this in the first place.

I get told it is all down to interview, so I clearly need to improve my interview skills, and will get feedback to help with this. I've spent 3 years working really hard, commuting a ridiculous distance compared to the other students and being encouraged to apply and told I should get a job.... to this. And no, I'm not normally such a drama llama !

I can completely understand your feelings. But for context, the NHS uses competency based interviewing and you have to meet a minimum standard, to avoid bias/nepotism
in interviewing. Ask around at the Trust you've trained at to see if people will give you mock interviews to learn the techniques.

oh no OP - that is rubbish. wait until
they tell you either way, but please see it like this - if they don't snap you up someone will as you are exactly the kind of person the nhs needs. And something better will come your way and you will hopefully look back and think phew

Thanks, I did go through potential questions with my clinical supervisor beforehand, so clearly didn't get it right after that. Feedback from them will help me prepare for my next interview, so hopefully I'll get that from them today.

I'm trying to remain positive but it is hard when I got some criticism for even thinking of going to uni at my age when I first started all this.... feel like I'm going to get some 'I told you so' now.

NHS recruitment is so strange. We had an acting ward manager who was doing the job, was great at the job, did the interview and didn't get it. They didn't hire anyone for that role and so she carried on doing it for a few months before she got fed up with the lack of stability and left. Leaving no one able to do the job. Don't feel disheartened, just ask for feedback and move on!

It's because it's points based. It can feel really crap if you've worked and done well in placements but unfortunately it's unlike other industries and is based on interview skills.
Try not to feel upset as it really isn't personal. It's just nhs

Yes, I work in education and it’s the same. It doesn’t matter how well you’ve performed, you have to nail the interview. It’s points based and requires you to use the correct terminology, give thorough examples that cover their criteria and so on. The person who gets the most ticks in the right boxes gets the job. It’s brutal but fair. Basing it on performance and personal preference gets you into the realm of favouritism. Not appropriate for NHS or council.

@pictish I would believe in it if we ended up with the best candidates not the best bullshitters!

In short, yabu to take it personally. It couldn’t be less so, I’m sure.

I got really disheartened when I started applying for jobs just before I qualified. I couldn't even get a job on the wards that had bad reputations.
I applied for every job and got a job in a very acute area, which was the perfect job for me. I've changed jobs several times since then, and I've always got the jobs I really wanted. I think it's down to my enthusiasm for the job. I didn't want the jobs on the wards with the bad reputations, and I think that must have come across in my interview.
Keep going, the perfect job is there for you.

I’m a diligent a skilled worker within my setting...I have form for excellent practice. It still took me four goes at the interview to nail the current position I’m in, which is a step up from the role I used to hold.
It was all in the interview.

Agree with the others it will come down to the interview.

In a recent interview panel I had one not yet qualified nurse score almost as highly as an experienced nurse in our field ( and much higher than other qualified nurses) it was obvious she had really taken time to prepare and was able to evidence her answers.

All is not lost, head up and go again!

Do you think it’s age related ?

If this is you first set of interviews, I'm afraid I think you need to toughen up a bit. It's really common not to get the first job you go for, just keep trying. Getting feedback is a good idea.

This must be so disheartening. It comes down to either an issue at interview, or they have a very different view of your ability and personal skills.

Hopefully it is it the latter so you need to focus on the former. They have to stick to the process, score fairly and give the job to those who score higher or risk being legally challenged.

Feedback is key in your situation. Good luck, hope you get a role in your preferred trust.

I echo the points based comments. We have interviewed excellent internal candidates for roles the next level up, but an external person got the job because they performed better at interview and gave better answers. See if someone will do some interview practice with you, and revise some answers to the values based questions. Always have a good example ready for a question, and explain what the example taught you/what skills it allowed you develop or practice.

Ageism?

They hire the people who are best at interviewing, not the best at doing the actual job. Keep reminding yourself of that!

I get you OP. I've had a couple of interviews internally recently including one that I thought I'd aced. It actually came like a blow to the stomach when I got an email saying I hadn't got it. When I got feedback it turned out that there was a better candidate at interview, but it's possible that an opportunity may materialise in a wee while.

Stay calm and take your feedback on board, if you've not interviewed yet for the position you actually want, then it's a very useful practice run.

When I was applying for band 5 jobs I didn't get the first 3, and then got the 3 after that.
I just needed time to settle in, really know myself and not be put off by a question I hadn't practised for.

If it's band 5 posts you're applying for (and it's it's the same as OT) you can also be up against people who have 6m-18m experience who want a change of role.

Are you applying for everything commutable? My first job I didn't really want the clinical area but I loved it and stayed 18m til I moved on to something I wanted more.

Also if your trust is anything like ours they'll love the fact you're older

I was changing jobs at an older age. Same job just different setting. Excellent references. Great range of experience. All other candidates were younger with little or no experience. They were getting the jobs.
Then l realised l wasn't selling myself. Coming from a generation where it was encouraged to be more modest l was counting on my experience to carry me. Next interview l didn't recognize myself talking. Everything l said was true but l was uncomfortable bigging myself up as not natural for me. The young people are far better at that. Got the job! I could really see the difference in my approach and it worked.

Also the way the points system works is getting extra points for the more comprehensive your answer is. So don't try to be really succinct (I mean don't waffle loads either!).

Make sure you've done loads of work on professional standards, current national/local drivers, research the values and priorities of the trust applying for, rehearse over and over some basic questions which could be adapted to range of different scenarios (eg when something has gone wrong and how you turned it round, safeguarding, a personal challenge, other staff behaving in an unprofessional manner, a daily prioritisation schedule). If the job is for a particular client group (or range of conditions) make sure you know plenty about those and how that affects the patients and your role.

It sounds like you know your stuff I just wonder if you're not going into enough depth? Unfortunately unis often do a good job of prepping students and some people are naturally amazing at interviews.

I'd write down all the questions I'd get asked after each interview and go through them until a had a really comprehensive answer which I'd learn. Most interviews aren't that different at entry level.

It will be your points at interview. Everyone is moving towards points based interviews because then you can prove (from the notes) why you scored a candidate how you did. Yes it means that if you’re a good bullshitter you can get through an interview but if you are really good at your job then you can learn how to do a good interview on a points based system because it is just learning how to frame your experience so it answers what they want.

It’s much harder to be biased when you have to score literally on what the candidates say, unless the interviewers have literally lied on their scoring forms...

You need to look at pre-interview comments as encouragement rather than any sort of assurance you are in line for a job. People who see you on time, work hard etc are there for references which comes after interview stage. They are maybe not at interview or are only 1 of a 3-5 person panel...who don't know you & configured that way for that reason. You need to nail the interview. Competency based interviews, which are much more common now, require you to tick all the boxes, hit the right notes & have persuasive examples demonstrating that competency at the level required. If you don't get the points on interview, you don't get the offer. It allows for transparency & also serves as a cover-your-ass for employers so they can show a totally level playing field at interview. Get recommendations for an excellent career coach, you can explain you are not looking for another career direction..but cracking interviews. Senior Execs do this even foc only one important interview...preparedness (like for an exam) is the key. All that being said, i'm not sure that any organisation I know hasn't got at least one employee who nails at interview but really talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. It takes a skilled interviewer & a curve ball to get a superficial super confident, super prepared millenial to flinch & get them off the track of the much rehearsed over prepped answer. I wish they had a box for over-emphasised contouring (Kardashian style), girls saying 'like' frequently & unnecessarily & touching their hair contantly, guys with fringes gelled up (esp men..as in grown men) & wearing trousers glued on to them so they can barely sit...I've lots of pet hates that would drive me insane on a day to day basis...but if they've prepared well, tick the competency boxes & it stacks up on references, then they are top of the pile. Practice at those competency answers is key...

Thank you all so much for your advice and comments. I probably do need to toughen up and be more self promoting. I think there may be something in me not going in to enough depth too, I really need to practice because a lot of questions are similar and cover a basic range for a band 5 position I agree.

It was my first interview, I have two more. My friends in my cohort have walked into jobs easily, even at their first interview, they are all much younger than me, and very good so I was not surprised, and delighted for them.

I am going to spend some time preparing now for my next one, and try not to dwell too much if possible.