To be gutted I got turned down by OU to study PGCE

[MrsDontDoMuch]

I’m just a bit upset, and wondered if anyone had any experience of being rejected by OU?

I work as a class room assistant and have over twenty years experience of working in schools. I have GCSE’s, A levels, a degree, and diploma in performance (ABRSM piano). I recently applied to OU to study a PGCE. I wrote what I thought was a good application and personal statement.

I’ve just received feedback that I was rejected because I did not ‘demonstrate a clear understanding of curriculum reforms’ and ‘maybe I should work on improving my GCSE grades’. I did get a C in maths and English amongst several other subjects but a D in science (my mum died when I was doing my GCSE’s) and I would have thought A levels and a degree would outweigh my GCSE grades?

AIBU to think this is just patronising feedback? I’m thinking it’s because I’m in my early 50’s and maybe they think I’m just too old? I just can’t stop crying, I really wanted to be a primary school teacher.

SCITT or traditional route does not matter. A grade 4 equivalent in science is a requirement for primary.

It’s no good saying ‘but you have a degree’ .
The rule is that you have to have a c or above in maths, English and in some cases science. You could have a maths degree but you need the GCSE all the same.

When I applied you didn’t have to have the science if you were over a certain age. Looking that the list now getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/eligibility-for-teacher-training it seems that everyone needs the science if they want to teach primary.

@Saucery
Perhaps you took them as part of a trial in 1987?
Officially GCSEs were first sat in 1988.

I think 1986 was the last year of 'O' levels and CSEs, with some subjects being replaced by GCSEs the following year and the rest the year after that.

So yes, people who were in the equivalent of Y11 in 1987 will have most likely sat a mixture of 'O' levels and GCSEs.

The irony is a C in O'level Maths is worth more than a B (or even an A) in GCSE Maths.

As others have said, you’ll need a C in a science GCSE. But please don’t let this put you off. You can still become a teacher!

Anyone who has a degree should be able to study for a GCSE quite easily. If it’s been a while since your degree, you could see it as a gentle easing back into studying before you start your PGCE. It will also give you a firsthand look into current education policy (albeit secondary!)

I originally trained jn another country so didn’t do PGCE, but it’s not surprising that they want you to have an awareness of the current curriculum. I’m sure you have lots of knowledge in this area if you’re a TA, but maybe you didn’t quite show this off enough in your application. Did they give you a chance to demonstrate this, e.g. an interview?

The GCSE results of 20 years ago are completely irrelevant imo. Only someone with a photographic memory could remember all they learnt if they haven't kept up to date with the subject. If someone got poor results but have kept up to date, say by working as a TA in a primary school and doing some reading on the subjects they are teaching the children, they may now know way more about the subject than someone who got a good grade years ago. We all know the way maths is taught has changed since then, and that goes for most subjects to some extent. Or should every teacher have to retake their GCSEs every 3 years?

On the run up to GCSE, there were some "16+" exams which gave you either a CSE, or, if you did well enough, a CSE grade 1 and an O-level grade.
At a guess, that's what the OP did, hence a mixture of O-levels and CSEs.

Anyway, as others have said, the problem is the national requirement for primary teachers to have maths, English and science at C or above. (I realise there may be an extra confusion if the OP has CSEs in science, as they were graded with numbers, but the numbers are not the same as the new GCSEs. To have the equivalent of a GCSE 4/C, you'd need a CSE grade 1.) Older colleagues at their school may not have realised about the science, as that wasn't always required, but it is now.

The OU would be irresponsible to take someone who hasn't got the required GCSEs, because they would not be able to teach at the end of the course. I've been to interviews where they've asked me to bring my O-level certificates with me.

Just for info the O Level was known as the GCE!

They're not completely irrelevant when the requirement is for a grade 4 equivalent. That's not the OU; it's the rule for all providers.
I'm working with a trainee on the AO route at the moment. Her GCSEs were not good enough so she's had to sit them again. Her degree and her experience are great but the GCSEs are a basic requirement. "Fair" doesn't come into it, I'm afraid.

@Backtoblack1

You need at least a B grade in Maths and English to teach now. Also, watch your apostrophes on the application form. GCSEs doesn’t need one. Sorry if that sounds patronising x

Nope. Still a C

@KirstyHasLeft

I think it's awful that something you were not great at when you were 16, can hold you back your whole life. I didn't do great at school. Lied about my grades to get into an Access course. Then did a degree and got a 1st. Just because, for whatever reasons, you didn't do your best when you were a teenager, doesn't mean you can't do great now. Also - how can one know about curriculum reforms before one becomes a teacher?

It doesn’t hold you back for the rest of your life. I got poor O Levels and left school at 16. I got accepted on a B Ed course aged 26 and qualified at 30. Retired from teaching last year.

TBH, it doesn't seem like you're on top of your brief if you didn't even realise what Science grade is the legal requirement. Maybe that came across in your personal statement as well?

I know I sound harsh, but it's quite competitive to do a PGCE atm and you sound like you thought you would be doing them a favour.

I don’t have any knowledge of teaching but just wanted to say I got rejected from university one year and it really hurt, but I reapplied to a much higher-ranking uni the year after and they snapped me up. Don’t take it personally, sometimes they just get it wrong, if it’s the GCSE then obviously work on that but sometimes you just have to try again and it’ll work out better in the end.

The mixed GCE/ CSE exams were called (I think) CS or common syllabus. I sat them in 1985 and have grade 1 CSE in Geography and English as well as a GCE (O level) in both.

The first year to sit GCSE sat their exams in 1988 or 1989. No one who is in their 50s sat GCSEs at the age of 16. It is of course quite possible to have GCSEs if you are in your 50s if you sat them late.

I’m in Wales, the requirements are different.

Surely exams taken over 30 years ago are completely pointless when applying for a further degree now. The curriculum would have changed substantially.
If they are rejecting you based on a D in science from the late 80s go somewhere else. It’s utterly ridiculous.

Honesty it’s poor research by you not to have known about the C requirement. I redid mine a few years ago in case I ever wanted to do PCGE. Apply to do that in Sept and reapply

If they are rejecting you based on a D in science from the late 80s go somewhere else. It’s utterly ridiculous

A C grade at GCSE level is a national requirement for primary teaching; every other provider will also require this.

Access course might be your route. I applied to uni in my mid 40s - I had only 5 O levels (not including maths) and wanted to read psychology. I got a good pass on the Access course. That, plus sending some pieces of writing ahead of me and a good awareness of the course content, go me a place on a very competitive course at Manchester. I went on to get a 1st, masters with distinction and a Ph.D.

Later I myself interviewed applicants. I found older applicants among the most hard working and ambitions of all the students I taught. Most universities assess older students differently, and also take into account their work and life experience.

In all my applications to higher education and for academic jobs no one has EVER asked me to produce a degree or qualification certificate! Is it possible to "wing" your grades?

@Backtoblack1

I’m in Wales, the requirements are different.

You need Welsh though don’t you? I looked into moving to Wales and not being a Welsh speaker seemed to stop me.

@JingleCatJingle

Surely exams taken over 30 years ago are completely pointless when applying for a further degree now. The curriculum would have changed substantially. If they are rejecting you based on a D in science from the late 80s go somewhere else. It’s utterly ridiculous.

You can't just go somewhere else. It's a national requirement to have a C (equivalent) in science for primary. It's pretty well-publicised as well for anyone wanting to apply...

It isn't supposed to be easy to get into teaching.

Is a C definitely required on science these days? When I did my PGCE a C in science was only a requirement if you’d taken your GCSEs before a certain year (I don’t remember which year, but I had a D in science and was accepted on the course because I’d taken my GCSEs before the cut off year. I am younger than OP so I assumed that would still be the case.

In all my applications to higher education and for academic jobs no one has EVER asked me to produce a degree or qualification certificate! Is it possible to "wing" your grades?
Do you mean lie?
No. They will ask to see certificates.

In all my applications to higher education and for academic jobs no one has EVER asked me to produce a degree or qualification certificate! Is it possible to "wing" your grades?

I have been teaching for over twenty years and am still required to take GCSE certificates to job interviews even now, so would say this is terrible advice!