How do you upsize!?

[secondtimebuyer1]

This is a very first world problem and I know we are lucky to a) own our own home and b) have stable incomes.

We bought our first home in 2013 for £285k- a 2 bed bungalow. In 2015 we borrowed an extra £50k and converted the loft so we now have a three bedroom house. Mortgage is now £203k and house is worth £420k. We are desperate for a 4th bedroom so family can stay (post lockdown) as they all live up north.

When we bought our combined household income was just under £50k. We have progressed in our careers and our combined income is now £84k - despite our pay increases we still can't afford to upsize. A detached 4 bed with garage (our forever home dream) in our area is £700k- these are relatively normal family homes. We'd need a combined salary of £100k+ to afford a house like that- how do normal families afford it? We both work full time in professional jobs, nursery fees are crippling and I feel like we're just keeping up. If we were first time buyers we'd need a £42k deposit just to buy our own home- would never have happened!

AIBU to think the only way to really upsize, in the south east, is win the lottery or inherit?!

Mylovelyhorsee

You’re

*Relatively to what? Our ages? The uk? The area?

Either way, we've the highest household income of our friends. Most of my female friends work very part time or are SAHM and their DP's have normal jobs with 5 figure salaries*

OP you said your self you have 3 DCs from 2.5-11. That sounds lovely but will have consequences, other school mums will have made other choices. One of thise consequences is you have had and will to continue to have ongoing and conflicting childcare needs eg: nursery school, primary and secondary school age children. This can be expensive either in terms of direct cost or limiations on working hours.

Very few of us live in the house we love with our ideal number of children doing our dream job (maybe the Duchess of Cambridge ?). We both moved out to upsize and only have 2 DC (I'd have liked 4) but wanted to be able to afford to pay for private education if necessary (our upsize area doesn't have great state senior schools). Other choices would have been to stay in our 2 bed house in zone 2, gonw into the loft and had solutions like the premier Inn suggested on here.

4 beds in our area are £600k +. Three beds £400k+. I would look for a large 3 bed and have a extention. Or buy at auction.
We recently left a 5 bed, we didn't use two bedrooms and overnight entertained 5 times. My husband said it would have been cheaper to hold the parties (2x 21st, 2x birthday for me plus Christmas 2019) at the Ritz! Extra running costs were £50k over the two years. Becareful what you wish for.

@secondtimebuyer1 I just think it’s low, most people I know have a combined of much higher. We are all different though, you know people on much lower so think it’s high.

@flooredreally

With an joint income of 90k DH and I only had a house worth 250k up north! Mortgage on 190k of that.

I don't think that's normal, to borrow so little. Most borrow at least 4 x their income.

Yes. You could borrow £450k from Halifax over 25 years on a 90k income, if you have no loans.

@Mylovelyhorsee or you could look at actual data and see it is an above average household income (that's not to say it can afford a £700,000 house but it's ridiculous to label a salary on "feelings" when there are statistics).

Maybe I am wrong but my thinking is.
If you own your house outright, you will have a £400k deposit for the new house when selling this one or at least £250k deposit if you are still paying this one off. As that’s the amount of profit you would make selling it. Which means you would only need a mortgage of either £300k or £450k respectively.
Surely your salaries would allow you a mortgage of £300k?

@flooredreally

With an joint income of 90k DH and I only had a house worth 250k up north! Mortgage on 190k of that.

I don't think that's normal, to borrow so little. Most borrow at least 4 x their income.

Why would anyone borrow more than they needed to? They bought the house they wanted without mortgaging themselves to the hilt. Seems eminently sensible to me.

@Alsohuman the question wasn't about what is sensible or not. The poster I replied to said the below

Completely unhelpful but I have no idea how you even have the house you have on the income posted! £50?!
With an joint income of 90k DH and I only had a house worth 250k up north! Mortgage on 190k of that.

Most borrowers borrow more than 2x their salary, that's a fact.

@Mum2b43 it's clear from the OP that they do not own the house outright - which is completely normal for people who bought 8 years ago. So no, with 300k they cannot get a 700k house.

I can't take seriously the sentence "you'd only need a mortgage for... £450k". Ah if only they'd realised it was so easy. Silly them

Chill out! I said ‘I might be wrong’. I was only thinking that would be the case. Have a cup of tea and calm down. Life’s too short to get angry about people who make comments on a thread on MN.
I personally thought £400k mortgage would be doable on a £90k salary. I am not a mortgage advisor.
In fact I retract my earlier post and replace it with...

OP I think you should talk to a mortgage advisor and get some real facts about your options. MN is probably not where you would find the real answers.

As others have said - move to a cheaper area!
DH and I earn together over 100k but no chance would we be crippling ourselves by buying a 700k house / borrowing 500k. Why on earth? Just to entertain a bit? Live in a fancy area? Seems a bit pointless. I'd certainly be looking to earn quite a lot more to make that jump, regardless of whether the bank would loan or not. Consider running costs as well!

When family come over (quite a lot - all of them are abroad) we just adjust and have a Fab time. The kids move in together / we go to another bedroom with the kids and make space for my parents/MIL. We have a room that is pretty much my MIL's bedroom but it's also the office and she comes for 3-4months a year. I wouldn't increase my mortgage so significantly just to have an extra bedroom for my parents/brother. So far we've always adjusted, a bit of a squeeze when everyone is here but for a couple of weeks it's fine.

[quote flooredreally]@Alsohuman the question wasn't about what is sensible or not. The poster I replied to said the below

Completely unhelpful but I have no idea how you even have the house you have on the income posted! £50?!
With an joint income of 90k DH and I only had a house worth 250k up north! Mortgage on 190k of that.

Most borrowers borrow more than 2x their salary, that's a fact. [/quote]
It doesn’t matter what other people do. Do people seriously not buy houses that suit their needs because they’re too cheap? It just seems utterly ridiculous to me. But then our mortgage was less than twice our salaries so we’re obviously weird too.

What are you going on about? Of course it doesn't matter how much others borrow but the fact remains most people don't borrow x2 their income. I'm unsure what you are struggling with.

My first flat was £31k & my salary was £16K (1981).

My son looked into getting a flat in our area & the estate agent laughed him out of the office. He earns £24k the cheapest flat here is £175k.
Rents are expensive.

I think he’ll be with us for a while!

Maybe if you buy a do'er upper? I had a 3 bed house in Bedfordshire my partner had a 2 bed flat in Reading ( he previously lived in a 5 bed with his ex but they had a combined income of about £75,000 and a £12,000 a month mortgage. when she left him he had to sell the house as he couldn't afford the mortgage on his own and had to split the proceeds with his ex
I sold my house and made £130.00 profit and he sold his flat. Together we bought a 3 bed semi in Reading, in a very nice area for £249.000 just under the stamp duty. It was however a 60's throwback. We borrowed a bit more on the mortgage and had a new combi boiler fitted. We had a little lean to porch rebuilt and insulated to extend the kitchen and had the door moved from one end of the kitchen to the other and the 1st door blocked up.We had to have a new lowered ceiling put in the kitchen as the old one was artex with awful strip lights behind yellowing perspex. My partner is pretty good a DIY so we ordered a kitchen from Wickes but on the day it was delivered he received news about redundancy's where he worked. He opted for enhanced redundancy but they kept him on for another 6 months during a departmental transition. I wasn't sure if we could afford to stay and said to my sister I now didn't know what to do about decorating the house etc. She advised doing it up to a good standard. which we did.
We sold our lovely little house 18 months later for £339,000 and moved to a cheaper area in the East Midlands. We now have a four bedroom detached with a garage, utility room and a conservatory. It cost us £230.000 5 years ago and we are mortgage free.

So there are two options buy a place you can do up, where you currently live or move to cheaper area (further north to be closer to your relatives).
I suppose it all depends on whether your jobs are transferable.
Just a thought if you were to move back to the north would there be any willing grandparents to look after your children instead of nursery fees?
Good luck with what ever you decide.

In the 70s we lived in a 3 bedroomed house with my parents. when guest came to stay either my sister or me would have to free up our room and share whilst the guests were there. It isn't really that big of a deal. It is one of those things that nowadays every seems to think they should have, the same as en suites.

We had our house valued yesterday and it's been valued at significantly more than we thought it's worth (I'm wondering if the estate agent was blind frankly as the house needs a lot of work). It'll need a full redecorate throughout at best. But the agent reckons young families are buying up in my area as we're next to a fab school, but we couldn't have afforded this house at it's current price when we started out! How are first time buyers meant to do it?

We're now looking at having a £100k deposit, but still need a whacking great mortgage to get the size house we need (and we dont care about it being a semi, but would love detached) which means our monthly wages will be squeezed considerably and we earn well.

There is just no chance for people on average incomes to buy in this area.

Have you checked with a mortgage broker what you could have?

When do free nursery hours kick in for you?

Maybe 3 bed detached on a bigger plot then extend?

Think people compromise don’t they? Either do without a guest bedroom, wait until kids are older, or move to a cheaper area. Don’t need lottery or inheritance.
Moving to a £700k forever home whilst you still have pre-schoolers would be a pretty big ambition for anyone, I think you’re being slightly unrealistic to think it should be possible right now. Be patient.
Also by my experience once you get the guest room you’ll be surprised how little it ends up getting used by your family up north!!

Possibly a loft extension.

If you put a structure in the back garden that is used for sleeping as opposed to an office you will need planning permission.

With promotions and no nursery fees you can probably do this in a couple of years but do you really want to stretch yourself like this. Wouldn’t you rather keep the extra money for holidays and luxuries ...you could always pay for your relatives to stay in a hotel airbandb