Teachers: is there a general subject that teaches topics including rights on marriage vs co-habitation, pensions and life knowledge, etc

[DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo]

And if there isn't, AIBU to think there should be?

It's shocking to see on here that there are still regular posts where (usually) a mum who has had children with a partner and isn't married to them, is horrified to find out they have little no rights to property etc on splitting.

And posters who say 'marriage is just a piece of paper', not realising the protection it gives them (or the impact it could have on them, if they are the higher earner).

Etc etc.

Also the number of posts in the money section where people haven't started a pension (however small) and are now in difficulty.

Or those who haven't claimed child benefit because their partner is over the threshold but didn't realised they themselves would benefit from National Insurance contributions if they claims but declined the benefit element.

Or mums that stopped worked when children came along, 'encouraged' by their partner to do so, who now find themselves unskilled and under pressure?

So many life skills / knowledge about choices seem to have passed people by.

Is there a subject that covers things like these, and if not, AIBU to think there should be?

On one hand, I agree that education should have more practical knowledge (especially right now while helping DS1 in his crunch time for iGCSE studying and feeling the 'what exactly is the point of wanting all children to memorize this' strongly while trying to help him deal with the blocks he's having in chemistry).

On the other hand as others said - the rules and laws on that change so getting into the nitty gritty beyond the introductions done in PSHE, RE, and so on might not be as helpful. It would be good to have time to learn how to keep up to date with these things, good sources for information possibly using these topics as examples, but with how quickly things change (and the differences within the UK on some topics, let alone further afield). I think it would be great to have better legal knowledge, but it would have to be on a base that these things change.

@UrsulaBee

Why is everything the responsibility of schools??

How about we, as parents, start teaching our kids life skills such as these?

Completely agree. It's the subject called "Parenting and not expecting the teachers to do everything for you".

I also agree with the PP who asked what should be removed to make room for this?

I did do some of this. We had to do a PHSE type thing at A’Level. I know I did an RE component, which was more ethics and philosophy, and I know I had to do an Economics and a Politics bit. I have no memory whatsoever of what I actually learnt, because I wasn’t remotely interested. I was focussed on the topics I was studying for my A’Levels, which were the ones I was interested in and the ones I needed to get good grades in for University. Some random teacher telling me things that I really wasn’t interested in really made no difference at all.

I can do all those things now because as they became relevant to me, I looked them up and made it my business to educate myself, not because a teacher stood in front of me 20 years ago for an hour or two.

Parents should be teaching things like that not teachers.

If they don’t know, it takes minutes to google something. Although it doesn’t take a lot to work out that if you don’t work there’s likely no pension and future finances and job prospects will be affected. That’s just common sense.

I teach in a boarding school, including PHSE and EP (enrichment programme). A number of teachers teach both subjects, and between the two we cover things like sex education, healthy relationships, finances, pensions, mortgages (our bursar who is a qualified accountant helps us out too) and general life skills. Upper Sixth get taught about budgeting at Uni or when they leave school. I have in the past done a "which of these is true" and give three examples, one being "if you are married and have children, if you split up then the main parent is legally entitled to remain in the family home - but only if you are married" kind of thing (is word it better than that, I'm hungover right now 😂). Hardly anyone thinks that is true!

@TheOnceAndFutureQueen

PSHE covers all of those things. Most of what you mention is now statutory content under the new RSHE guidance

On top of that they have ‘careers’ as a lesson. Usually as part of a rotation of subjects.

Those sorts of things are shoehorned into PSHE but the curriculum is so crowded and schools are put under a lot of pressure to achieve exam results in certain "core" subjects and are judged on this bases, so the more social type of education doesn't get as much time dediated to it.

So many life skills / knowledge about choices seem to have passed people by.

Is there a subject that covers things like these, and if not, AIBU to think there should be?

Just to add to the many people who have said YABU to think that all of the above should come from school - It might be a good idea for parents to educate their own children in these matters too.

Its in the lesson called parenting your children. If a parent chooses not to do that lesson that child can find the information out as an adult, if you’re capable of living without your parents or raising a child you’re capable of taking responsibility for your own future.

Whilst these topics are covered under page your typical teenager is no ot particularly interested in marriage and pensions advice and how the two relate to each other. In the heir mind they have far more important than hinds to get on with, and to be fair, many adults aren't interested either until it is relevant to them.

It's a bit unfair not to mention unrealistic to expect schools to teach kids everything they need to know for the rest of their lives and the government or anyone else saying provide lessons in this or that as a way to address shortcomings in society seem like more of a publicity stunt to me.

Instead we should focus on making people independent learners with the common sense and ability to research such issues when they consider co habiting having kids etc. Parents can and should have a large role here too.

Surely much of it would be forgotten and out of date by the time it's relevant. I propose we just sign them up for forum accounts at the Money Saving Expert website and then they can ask about it when they need to

In a perfect world, it's a parenting job. But when parents themselves struggle with finances etc or aren't capable of educating their children on things like this, I do think it might stop history repeating itself on occasion.
But what gives to make room for it? I suppose a curriculum tweak to remove some bits that most kids would never use - like Pythagoras in my case!
I do reflect on education and wonder how much we disengage children when they can't see the point or relate to how they see their own lives.
But it isn't for us to choose who gets access to academic education and who gets life skills or vocational. So, I dunno. I conclusion!
But it's vair privileged to say it's a parenting job for all.

Where parenting fails, Mumsnet can step in to judge and berate!

Citizenship covers much of this along with PSHE but unfortunately when there are education budget cuts, these are the subjects that are deemed unnecessary luxuries.

When parents haven't been taught these skills themselves and are muddling through life, how on earth are they supposed to pass on such knowledge to their children?

There are many people who make poor decisions that if they'd known otherwise, would have been able to choose differently. You're right to want them taught in school but there will be those who haven't had such struggles who will disagree.

@GuyFawkesDay

I can see your point but pretty much all of society's problems seem to be outsourced to schools to fix.

There simply isn't the time or money to do everything demanded of schools.

Besides which, the absolving of responsibility towards others to do things for is disempowers people to take responsibility for their own knowledge and education on life. And that of their children.

Let's face it, the information has never been easier to find than it is today with the internet, and yet it's someone else who must find it for people and their families?

This. Schools do not have the time or resources to plug the gaps in life knowledge. This is parental responsibility.

Also, giving info about pensions, bills and mortgages in secondary schools would be so irrelevant and out-of-date by the time children enter the workforce and get their first decent paying job and actually think about pensions and mortgages and bills.

Children don’t even have basic numeracy or literacy and schools are scrambling about to instill these core subject skills in pupils that the humanities, languages, sports and arts are already having to give leeway. There isn’t enough timetable/school time to teach about things like this when more important areas are having to concede.

If a teacher told the class that being a SAHM without being married was risky there would be an absolute riot. The mum's in this situation would go mad!

I think that kids aren't going to listen to stuff that might not happen to them eg mortgage or is so far in the future that it's too abstract eg babies.

Careers guidance is a must but are you really going to discuss benefits with people who aren't even working yet? I think most kids hope not to rely on them and may be unaware that in some jobs you could be working 40 hours a week and still need to claim

Post A level many moons ago we had two weeks before the end of the summer term. One teacher did use her lessons to go through compound interest, pensions, mortgages (though nowt to do with marriage). I don't think very many of us took any of it in. It was quite drily taught, though.

My mother was financially canny though, and I learnt more from her about checking statements, interest rates etc - alas in my thirties when I'd missed ten years of compound interest .....

After A-levels we had some lessons like how to change the tyre on a car which everybody was interested in as we were driving /about to drive so found it interesting

@GrettaGreen

If a teacher told the class that being a SAHM without being married was risky there would be an absolute riot. The mum's in this situation would go mad!

Schools should be teaching children to aim high and to work hard at their education. Not teaching about benefits or opting out of work.

Really relieved to see so many posters point out that parents should be taking responsibility here. I’m fed up hearing “this-and-that should be taught in schools. Our time isn’t infinite and we’ve got more than enough to do already.

For what it’s worth I’m a secondary teacher in Scotland and I have actually delivered the SQA certificate in Personal Finance a few times to groups of senior pupils who opt out of traditional maths for whatever reason. It’s totally abstract to them and they don’t give a fuck.

Schools do not have the time or resources to plug the gaps in life knowledge. This is parental responsibility.

Schools have the time and resources to teach knowledge that most people will never use like quadratic equations or oxbow lakes, but they don't have the time and resources to teach about basic life knowledge and skills? In what world does that make sense?

basic life knowledge and skills

Something a parent should be teaching as a basic. I’m amazed at how many feel so much should be down to schools and tax payers to teach and finance children they chose to have.

If a teacher told the class that being a SAHM without being married was risky there would be an absolute riot. The mum's in this situation would go mad!
That's because however true it is, some would take it as a value judgement on their choices.

When I talk about finances with students, my main mantra time and time again is that "by the time you get to X stage in life, things will have changed, but it is really important that you research your options and make an informed decision".

Then give examples,
E g. When I bought my first house I had the option of shared ownership or to buy my house. I didn't rely on fancy brochures or the estate agents to tell me what to do, I did my research to decide what was right for me in the short and long term.
If you were ever in a situation where you had to choose whether to be financially dependent on someone else, always make sure you explore what options you have.
When I started working, pensions were different to now. When you're an adult, you'll need to think about the impact of any earning gaps (for example, coming out of the workforce for travel or with children) on your pension later in life.

That way it is all about promoting personal responsibility and not blindly accepting whatever someone else tells you (be it someone in the bank branch, a property development company, or a romantic partner).

Something a parent should be teaching as a basic.

By that argument schools shouldn't teach reading, writing and arithmetic as those are all basic, so why aren't parents teachning them?