AIBU to think this is odd?

[NoJazzHandsHere]

DH manages a large team of people. A few individuals in the team are going through a tricky time so he is trying to be supportive. However in one case he has started using his personal email address to exchange emails (person concerned is female) also using her personal email address as she is not at work at the moment. Emails are largely about her work situation but there are some pleasantries and there are a few emails about personal stuff such as what they are doing at the weekend. I don’t understand why he started contacting her via his personal email. He says I am being ridiculous.

AIBU?

@Mylovelyhorsee Sadly not the case in this situation. Work and personal accounts very separate.

@VladmirsPoutine Good options! Only (c) available to me now or to continue at loggerheads...

@user1493413286 No I can’t either! Just wouldn’t happen. They would wonder what the hell I was thinking! Largely people don’t exchange personal email addresses with their manager where I work. If something needs to be said, it is said in work time by work email.

@SunIsComing That’s where I stand too. I do have very clear boundaries though. If it’s work related it is done and said in work time. He has clearly given her his personal email address so she can contact him. I get that he is concerned about her and he is trying to do the right thing but it does blur boundaries and introduce the whole thing of photos in local beauty spots.

@SecretSpAD That is very true. I can understand he is torn. As her manager he needs to be following policy but I do understand that he would want to be supportive too.

@SecretSpAD

In his workplace people can’t access each other’s emails so confidentiality is not an issue.

I'm pretty sure that in every workplace there is an option for emails to a work address to be found on a server and used eg in a dispute or FOI request, so if he is supporting her with something sensitive then it is safer for both of them to take it outside work emails and use personal ones.

That's my understanding. I really appreciated being able to contact my manager personally rather than through work emails. The situation passed by and nobody was any the wiser.

There is a suspicious undertone to your thoughts. Never an attractive trait in a partner to have so much mistrust. That said, your husband won’t help himself if he starts trying to help people out of hours. The more complex someone’s personal situation, the more you get drawn and it starts to take over the working relationship. And unless he he is qualified in the field that she needs help, he will jus create problems.

His response is a problem. He’s furious at you over questioning this and he’s been reprimanded for having slack boundaries before.

This White Knight routine isn’t helpful for your marriage. It’s taking him elsewhere emotionally and the fact that you’ve questioned it is making him angry and punitive with you. Not ok. His priorities are off here.

[quote NoJazzHandsHere]@Sparklingbrook That makes perfect sense. In his workplace people can’t access each other’s emails so confidentiality is not an issue.[/quote]
No work email is actually private; IT can access them and if necessary, any senior member of staff would be able to (quick IT reset of the user account password, senior person logs on as the person concerned, all is done).

Are you jealous and insecure? Because I can’t imagine trying to get involved in my husbands relationships and dictate to him who he could talk to, how and when. I’d tell him to fuck right off.

@NoJazzHandsHere

Thank you *@Sparklingbrook*, I appreciate your perspective.

I think my concern comes from the fact that some years ago his organisation raised the issue of poor boundaries with him. I’m wondering if this is more of the same. He wants to be helpful of people going through a tough time, yes, which is great but taking it into personal messaging territory is my concern. Had this all been through work emails I wouldn’t have given it a second thought.

He is furious I saw them. Refusing to speak to me. Says I am getting in the way of his friendships.

Refreshed and read this. That doesn't sound good - a bit 'stalky/harassment of junior staff' in tone.

A FOI request means that everything at a work address can be looked at. We had this at my workplace, it was involving a terrorism allegation. So anyone who had ever had contact with the suspect had the request.

It’s crossing boundaries for sure.

This will open the debate of can men and women be friends yes they can but in a lot of those friendships things can get messy. I used to defend men and women friendships to the hilt until a few years ago when DH and I had a rough patch and two male friends made passes at me. One was single and one was married. I had been friends with one for a decade and the other for about three years. I was to say the least really upset.

But honestly a friendship over a line of seniority in a workplace regardless of gender can cause issues.

But as he has been pulled up on his boundaries previously that is a serious concern.

In his workplace people can’t access each other’s emails so confidentiality is not an issue.

I promise you that his emails can be accessed.

If she is off work, it makes sense that he is using her personal email address as she won’t be in work to receive it. It’s less normal for him to use his personal email but maybe it is to prevent someone else in work from reading it especially if he has been told off before for boundaries.

I’ve emailed my team from my personal email before. My phone has my work email and personal emails and sometimes I’ve sent it from the wrong one. It’s also normal to email personal emails when the person isn’t working if they have asked for contact and for it to be that way (some people ask for phone contact, letter or arrange meetings to come into the office).

@NeverDropYourMoonCup I think that’s my feeling about it. Yes the member of staff is having a tough time and I get he wants to be supportive. I also get the confidentiality issue around work emails. If they were colleagues I would understand. You want to support someone and you would do so privately but as a line manager I’d say he needs to be careful.

I think he is probably trying to cheer her up with little tales of what he’s been doing.... delivered shopping to his parents, sorted out neighbour’s fence...but it comes across as “Look at what a good person I am...and I’m supporting you too!!”

Given boundaries came up as an issue for him before at work I’m actually pissed offer would do this again. He sees it as different though. A different situation. (Same kind of behaviour though)

@sst1234 Exactly. Opens the door to a whole catalogue of problems IME and sets different boundaries around manager-staff communication.

@AtrociousCircumstance Exactly! White Knight. Rescuing people in ‘distress’.

@Bluntness100 I do agree with you on one level. I would feel the same. However I’m a manager in the same organisation which makes it more complicated as I know full well how this could end up.

@ColourfulElmerElephant Makes perfect sense he should be using her personal email address. Less sense he is using his. Whatever support he needs to give (which is fair enough), if above board, can be done via his work email address.

@Ikora But honestly a friendship over a line of seniority in a workplace regardless of gender can cause issues.
100% this. Why does he not see this??

Thank you all, great perspectives. I appreciate it hugely.

I have occasionally given members of my team who are experiencing difficult circumstances my personal email address in case they want to contact me (eg to give me an update or for a bit of support) at a time when I wouldn't ordinarily be accessing my work email.

I'd be furious if I was emailing my boss about something personal and his wife read them because she's paranoid. That was really awful of you to do. I'm not surprised your husband is angry.

[quote NoJazzHandsHere]@NeverDropYourMoonCup I think that’s my feeling about it. Yes the member of staff is having a tough time and I get he wants to be supportive. I also get the confidentiality issue around work emails. If they were colleagues I would understand. You want to support someone and you would do so privately but as a line manager I’d say he needs to be careful.

I think he is probably trying to cheer her up with little tales of what he’s been doing.... delivered shopping to his parents, sorted out neighbour’s fence...but it comes across as “Look at what a good person I am...and I’m supporting you too!!”

Given boundaries came up as an issue for him before at work I’m actually pissed offer would do this again. He sees it as different though. A different situation. (Same kind of behaviour though)

@sst1234 Exactly. Opens the door to a whole catalogue of problems IME and sets different boundaries around manager-staff communication.

@AtrociousCircumstance Exactly! White Knight. Rescuing people in ‘distress’.

@Bluntness100 I do agree with you on one level. I would feel the same. However I’m a manager in the same organisation which makes it more complicated as I know full well how this could end up.[/quote]
If she gets annoyed with him or he has to give her a poor appraisal/pull her up on absences or timekeeping/performance, he's given enough there for her to make a complaint - using his personal email deliberately so nobody at work can see he's doing it makes it seem even more dodgy.

And whilst the world as whole seems all too happy to take men's word for it that they 'only wanted to help' or 'it's been taken out of context' or 'she's making it up/has mental problems/wants to avoid a poor appraisal', I think most women know that it's rarely all in her head that a man in a position of authority over them is deliberately stamping all over their boundaries.

The fact that he's done it before makes it worse for him. And I think that it's very likely you are obliged to notify work that he is crossing those boundaries - after all, if (I know it's an IF) she later complains that he's been harassing or bullying her, you wouldn't want her disbelieved and lose her job/have to leave her job when you knew she was telling the truth.

I've seen a member of staff who complained of sexual harassment driven out because of exactly that. The (men) people in charge, despite all the witness statements, opted to believe his account that he was 'just being a friend and manager, can't imagine why this happened immediately after a poor appraisal' because it might ruin his career. But it was OK to ruin hers. Because that creep knew to not put it on email following the first occurrence he also got away with, so there was 'only a couple of people saying they saw something, no real evidence'.

I'm sorry, I am aware that the implications of this may end your marriage, but I do think that it's important to remain professional and treat it exactly as though you had become aware of a completely unrelated colleague (who had been warned for inappropriate behaviour in the past) doing exactly the same thing again to a junior member of staff they are in authority over - and reacting extremely angrily and defensively when it was brought up with them.

He should only only be using his work email for this, he is creating a paper trail that can be used against him if for some reason she gets upset. He is male, her senior and putting himself in a vulnerable position even if it is meant kindly

What did he do before @NoJazzHandsHere? You said ‘here we go again.’ What boundaries has he blurred before?

@Bluntness100

Are you jealous and insecure? Because I can’t imagine trying to get involved in my husbands relationships and dictate to him who he could talk to, how and when. I’d tell him to fuck right off.

Yep. OP you're being very controlling. Why is he not allowed to have very normal conversations with people just because they're female?

Many workplaces have a casual structure where managers have friendly relationships with their teams.

If he is contacting her about any work related matters at all and you have access to the account then he is clearly in breach of GDPR for allowing her data to be shared with you.

He is blurring the boundaries between professional and personal in a way that could see him in serious trouble.

She is possibly playing him like a fool to get whatever it is she wants (the flattery, the scenic photo in which she undoubtedly looks great) and he is panting after her with his big puppy tongue out. He will not be respected by any of his colleagues. How embarrassing for him. How awful for you.

To be fair the content of the emails is barely confidential or sensitive at all (partly because I work in a related department so know what is happening anyway). The emails are more supportive, how are you, hope you are ok, kind of thing which is why I’m surprised it could not be said through a work email. It’s much more of a friendly exchange. Plus the photo which I just don’t understand at all. Can’t imagine any of my staff sending me a photo of themselves under any circumstances.

@ButIcantsitonleather It was calls outside of work last time. Going the extra mile but taking it outside the work setting. Evening and weekend check-ins. I think he thinks he is being supportive and that was the intention. Unfortunately it got twisted and he was left very vulnerable as a result.

I do agree with all of you who have mentioned boundaries. And if he had kept the info in work emails then I would never have seen it!

I also agree that it might seem really controlling of me. I’ve left it as is. He can do what he wants. If he ends up in the shit it will be his fault.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup I agree with you. There needs to be boundaries around the support you give especially with a senior / junior, make / female dynamic. It’s sad but I do think if someone makes a complaint about a manager’s behaviour and that manager has communicated with the person outside of work, through personal means then it is really difficult to defend them. When does ‘support’ become ‘harassing me in my own time’?

We don’t live in the UK and we don’t have a casual attitude to this kind of thing in our workplace (or culture). I agree there are some workplaces where this would be totally fine but ours is not one of them.

@SummerWhisper Embarrassing indeed. We work in related departments so have regular contact. I know his team very well.

I am reading responses even though I can’t necessarily respond! Apologies.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup One thing is for sure I’m not going to defend him if it all goes tits up. In our workplace if you take something outside of work then you are pretty much on your own. So no, if things escalated and he was the subject of a complaint then I couldn’t defend him because he left himself open to it.

I’ve questioned it. He’s reacted angrily. I’ve left it. He can deal with the consequences. I’m not going to be subjected to anger because I have dared question something which I find inappropriate. I’m not stopping him from doing anything. I think I can question it though. And would expect to be questioned too if there is something he is not ok with.

100% willing to be told that I’m being unreasonable by the way which is why this is in AIBU!