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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Northern Ireland is never coming back from this.

31 replies

Bishbashbosh101 · 03/04/2021 15:40

I live in Northern Ireland where our politicians are so useless you'd nearly ban them.

Our council meetings consist of politicians voting in a partisan block, regardless of the issue, sometimes voting to agree that other party representatives will not be allowed to speak for the rest of the meeting. No Jackie Weaver in sight.

Then Brexit. Ever the agents of our own downfall, we helped to bring in the NI Protocol by kicking out every suggestion until only Boris and the Protocol were left.

I can't buy many items because they either don't deliver to NI anymore or aren't on the shelves. Cannot import large items without paying hundreds more. Businesses are stretching and buckling. It's not practical and I don't have a better idea. We're still discovering the ways we're going to be fleeced and inconvenienced in the years to come. The paperwork is unreal.

There is no way back from this, is there. Northern Irish political folk do not give up. They have successfully spent years bickering over something very minor to do with the Irish language, to the point that there hasn't been a functioning executive for years. They grind so small it's a kind of insanity, like immobility as a form of transport.

Now we have a proper subject to argue about which has, as befits any Northern Irish argument, no possibility of ever being solved. As usual, it's not entirely our fault, either. To all who voted Brexit, we couldn't have done it without you.

Border posts, endless haggling over details, coded encouragement to violent paramilitaries followed by pseudo exhortations for peace after the inevitable riots, cosy craft evenings in the garage making "Ulster says no to Irish Sea border" signs for the local roundabouts. This is exactly the sort of thing we like and we don't stop when people get hurt. Everyone takes tragedy as a signal to sanctimoniously double down.

I thought we were good at tangling ourselves up but this is on another level entirely.

There's no resolution.

OP posts:
NeepNeepNeep · 03/04/2021 15:44

I share your frustration but think that is too pessimistic.

UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 15:49

It’s true we are in a really horrible situation. It would be nice to think something magical will happen and we’ll somehow manage to sort it all out for the benefit of everyone here but the best indicator of future behaviour is pats behaviour so....

UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 15:50

Not pats behaviour. We’ll leave Pat out of it. past behaviour! Grin

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/04/2021 15:57

I’m not knowledgeable enough to vote YABU or yanbu om whether there’s any coming back, but that all sounds very sad. Everyone has the right to effective representation and NI hasn’t had it for ever such a long time.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/04/2021 15:58

I always used to feel like greater EU integration would solve NI’s problems, but clearly I knew nothing.

poppycat10 · 03/04/2021 16:00

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I always used to feel like greater EU integration would solve NI’s problems, but clearly I knew nothing.
Yes it seems to be a bit of a situation of be careful what you wish for. I thought NI was going to get the best of both worlds. It seems not Sad
niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:02

I'm from Northern Ireland. This kind of statement - "I live in Northern Ireland where our politicians are so useless you'd nearly ban them." - helps no one.

Politicans are part of society, they're aren't separate to it. If you don't like the politicians, do something about it. Join a party. Set up your own. Become an activist.

People in Northern Ireland either abstain from voting and political participation, or vote for idiots, and then complain that the political process doesn't serve their needs. Get engaged and stop moaning pointlessly.

UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 16:09

People in Northern Ireland either abstain from voting and political participation, or vote for idiots, and then complain that the political process doesn't serve their needs.

This doesn’t help anyone either, does it? I mean there’s a middle ground. I certainly don’t vote for any idiots. But my vote is only one vote- so yes when that one vote isn’t successful in getting my preferred candidate where I want them then of course I complain about who is there. We are entitled to complain when we don’t like what is happening.

CoffeePhoenix · 03/04/2021 16:09

@niobserver

"People in Northern Ireland either abstain from voting and political participation, or vote for idiots, and then complain that the political process doesn't serve their needs. Get engaged and stop moaning pointlessly."

Well, I don't vote for idiots, nor do I abstain. I campaign on local issues and I'm representing a community organisation with ministers. However, them 'ums politics is insidious and has infiltrated every single element of the political system here. I have no idea how it could every be diluted and neutralised.

Fully agree with OP

TeenMinusTests · 03/04/2021 16:13

The only way out of it I can see would be for NI to be reunified and to leave the UK.
It may well (almost certainly?) renew violence though.

It's a lose-lose-lose situation.

UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 16:14

However, them 'ums politics is insidious and has infiltrated every single element of the political system here.

It’s not just politics. It’s across the board. I’ve seen the most random topics being turned into a “them’uns” argument in the comments section on FB. Someone sees a name and decides they know what side you’re on, your political beliefs and what you think on any given topic. Hmm

niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:19

blaming other people for 'themuns' politics is the second favourite pastime of people from Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland is a deeply divided society with a huge democratic deficit. 'themuns' politics is a normal consequence of 100 years of inadequate politics, discrimination and violence.

standing outside the fray and blaming others for it is pathetic and unhelpful. everyone in Northern Ireland is complicit in what happens there.

niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:25

@UhtredRagnarson

People in Northern Ireland either abstain from voting and political participation, or vote for idiots, and then complain that the political process doesn't serve their needs.

This doesn’t help anyone either, does it? I mean there’s a middle ground. I certainly don’t vote for any idiots. But my vote is only one vote- so yes when that one vote isn’t successful in getting my preferred candidate where I want them then of course I complain about who is there. We are entitled to complain when we don’t like what is happening.

@UhtredRagnarson oh, and by the way, there is no 'middle ground'. the primary political cleavage is unionism vs nationalism. it's the defining political question and it can't be any other way while 40% plus of the population wants to be in a united ireland. you either want a united ireland, or you want the status quo. there's no 'middle ground'.
UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 16:27

blaming other people for 'themuns' politics is the second favourite pastime of people from Northern Ireland.

standing outside the fray and blaming others for it is pathetic and unhelpful. everyone in Northern Ireland is complicit in what happens there.

You say from your outside position.

Hmm
UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 16:28

oh, and by the way, there is no 'middle ground'. the primary political cleavage is unionism vs nationalism. it's the defining political question and it can't be any other way while 40% plus of the population wants to be in a united ireland. you either want a united ireland, or you want the status quo. there's no 'middle ground'.

Do you even read the posts you’re responding to?? Confused I said middle ground between abstaining and voting for idiots. Not united ireland or status quo!

CuthbertDibbleandGrubb · 03/04/2021 16:32

I think you were betrayed by Boris Johnson. Though you are not alone, he's done that to countless women in his private life, tried to involve Her Majesty the Queen in a disgraceful stunt, and there are more people who have died because of his laziness and inaction in March 2020 than died in the troubles.

I understood there to be cross-community parties in Northern Ireland that are gaining support gradually. I hope I have not been mistaken.

Steptoeshorse1965 · 03/04/2021 16:33

I have often felt sorry for the reasonable, sensible, moderate everyday folks among you guys over the years. Been across the water a few times, met many Irish people, worked with some too and found you all great. but what you are part of I feel for, it all seems so messy, unresolved, partisan, tripartite, antediluvian and so much more. And the politics a shithouse of an affair, and sadly I see no end to it as there are too many people and opinions to suit and salve. No one is going to get all they want. I feel for you, I do.

niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:35

blaming Boris Johnson for betraying you is like complaining you got wet when you went into the sea. it was always going to happen and there's no point moaning about it.

a large proportion of unionists voted for Brexit when they knew exactly what it meant for the good Friday agreement. it wouldn't have happened without their irresponsible support. the people of Northern Ireland love to blame other for what happens to them - but they've controlled their own destiny since 1998 and they've done nothing to move the place forward.

CoffeePhoenix · 03/04/2021 16:39

To be fair @niobserver I am an outsider - I moved to ni 15 years ago from London. I have no historic affiliation, no family background to them 'ums politics and in fully engaging in life here I have discovered that it's impossible to set it aside. It's certainly not a knee jerk lazy characterisation to excuse a lack of progress and attribute blame - it's far more disbelief that every issue gets dragged into it...

niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:39

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niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:42

@CoffeePhoenix

To be fair *@niobserver* I am an outsider - I moved to ni 15 years ago from London. I have no historic affiliation, no family background to them 'ums politics and in fully engaging in life here I have discovered that it's impossible to set it aside. It's certainly not a knee jerk lazy characterisation to excuse a lack of progress and attribute blame - it's far more disbelief that every issue gets dragged into it...
totally understand your perspective and I imagine it's very strange to come into from the outside. but you've lived there 15 years, you're in the midst of it now :)

every issue gets 'dragged in to it' because the state has no legitimacy amongst the people who live there. that's just a fact. 40% plus of the population want to live in the Irish republic. partition tore many people away from their homeland and there was huge, huge discrimination against nationalists from the state's foundation until the late 90s. society can't wish that away because it's inconvenient.

UhtredRagnarson · 03/04/2021 16:48

I’ve reported your posts @niobserver

niobserver · 03/04/2021 16:49

@UhtredRagnarson

I’ve reported your posts *@niobserver*
lol. on what grounds exactly?
Original poster
Bishbashbosh101 · 03/04/2021 16:57

everyone in Northern Ireland is complicit in what happens there.

I'd like to know how.

That would give us power. I personally don't have that. Nor a lifetime to spend in politics, checking under the car each morning, nor the talent. I don't even know what I'd do in this system. The executive makes Hanforth Parish look like a paragon of tolerance and harmony. We found it odd that people found that viral video so outrageous. That irascibility and lack of concern for business is Stormont on a good day.

I can vote for cross party groups and keep my preferences to myself but beyond that, I don't have power. I voted Remain and couldn't see how Brexit could ever happen without reigniting tensions. I didn't believe Boris and don't think many here did. Our politicians were still pinching themselves after the hung parliament and too drunk on their own self importance to notice no one now cared what they thought.

OP posts:
rc22 · 03/04/2021 17:13

I don't really know enough about politics in Northern Ireland to comment. I feel you've been let down by the rest of the UK (well, the English) who voted for Brexit without understanding or caring about the consequences for Northern Ireland. I argued with Brexiteer friends that it would have a negative impact on NI and was met with blank looks or even comments that Northern Ireland wasn't their problem. Considering the history of these islands, I found it absolutely shocking.