AIBU to be considering a new placement for DD

[PutItInNeutral]

I need some help again, relating to a thread I started a few days ago. Sorry, this is a v. long one.

Quick summary, DD age 8 has a friend Cindy, who often behaves badly at playdates, goes into a sulk or flat out refuses to play with others, and is a rude about our living standards. Link here for a better explanation. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4205693-AIBU-to-want-to-step-in-for-my-DD

DD and Cindy are in the same class, but have been attending separately, so DD goes to school on Mon/Tues, and Cindy and some other mutual little girlfriends go Thur/Fri. Last Friday, I’d planned to take Cindy and another friend Phoebe, to a fun Easter event, followed by dinner and play at our house. This is when Cindy had her last meltdown, once back at our house she wouldn’t play or participate, I ended up calling her Mum to get her.

This week is Easter Break, so we’ve met with other girls from class (I got this suggestion from the last thread, it was a good idea). But, during these meet ups, I found out from some other friends and their Mums that Cindy and Phoebe had been sent to the Head Teachers office. It was overheard and reported that Cindy and Phoebe were yelling in the yard that DD is gay, likes kissing girls, and they hate her. I think another friend reported this to the teacher on yard duty, hence ending Cindy and Phoebe ending up in the Head Teachers office. This isn’t the first time it’s happened either, multiple kids have said that Cindy and Phoebe have done this before (but it wasn’t reported).

This was mentioned to my DD by a Thur/Fri kid from her class, who heard and saw what went on last Friday. My daughter told me what she’d been told, once we got home from the park, and I’ve been in touch with a couple of Mums who have heard the same from their daughters. My DD is crushed, completely devastated. School fully opens 5 days a week next week, and she doesn’t want to go back to school.

Another problem is that I’m close friends with Cindy and Phoebes Mums. Were all on the PTA, hand out together, coffee morning and ladies nights out, and we get our families together often (we bubbled back during lockdown).We’re all transplants living away from our families, so these woman have been some of the few friends and support that I have. I’m gutted, but obviously much much more for my DD. She cried herself to sleep last night. I am raging.

I’m still getting messages from Cindy and Phoebes Mum, asking for play dates this week, wanting to plan summer camps, they have no idea that I know. My DH has advised me not to respond or get in touch with them for now. Both Mums have history for blowing off stuff like this, or minimizing, saying it’s hearsay from other 8 yr olds.

As I said, school is closed this week. I am unsure of what to do. Get the Mums to acknowledge what’s happened? Wait until next week and take it up with the girls teacher? Or go straight to the Head Teacher? Ask to have her moved class? Or to consider another school? Is this typical of kids experience at this age, and do I need to work on DD resilience?

I have terrible anxiety and this has set me off. We also had a sudden bereavement recently, so I realize I need some advice because I’m not thinking clearly. My DD is putting on a good front today, but I know my child and she’s sad. Please help, if you have any advice, or experience to share. I appreciate everyones time.Thank you

They were unkind but they've been given a good telling off and other than an apology to DD (if they haven't already) then it should be considered sorted and DD encouraged to either give it another go or to focus on other friendships. It sounds like it's blown into something bigger than needed because of too many parents gossiping about nonsense -and acting like 8 year olds themselves-.

So Cindy & Phoebe's Mums are your friends who had their children called to see Head Teacher because of what they've been saying about your DD & neither thought to mention it to you? Or have their daughters apologise to yours. I find that very odd behaviour from friends.

I would reply to msg for playdate saying you are opting out for timebeing as your DD is very hurt & you feel she needs a supportive environment rather than more upset & that there will need to be an apology before any more meet-ups. See will they have the balls to acknowledge what has happened & that their kids did wrong. I expect, if lots of Mums are spreading the word (it sounds like it) then they should have guessed that you have heard by now. I wouldn't consider changing schools or classrooms... there will be other incidents at different stages over the years & you can't move each time. Spend the rest of the holiday break from school building your DD's confidence & giving positive reinforcement & that gossip & lies are just that, it says more about people who behave like that than your DD. Teach her how to navigate these events & that her self worth is not measured by what others say. If your friends try to minimise this mean behaviour...stand up for DD & insist on an apology from the two daughters. I'd be cross as well. But I would let DD choose her friends...if she decides she doesn't want to join in future playdates for now with the two, so be it...she can focus on better friendships with others.

Thanks for the measured responses. And thanks for reading to the end!

Yes, Cindy and Phoebes Mums are my good friends, and neither have let me know that their girls were in the Head Teachers office about bad mouthing my DD.

In fact, on the day it happened, they let me pick up their girls as arranged, take them all out to an Easter event, and have gone on like nothing happened. I realize I may be over thinking as it’s my DD, but I feel like I’m being gaslit, with no acknowledgment or apology.

You’ve both got to the crux of the problem, which is the kids/parents chatting too much, and how to help my daughter navigate through these situations.

Bumping this in the hope that others come along. Thanks again to those that commented so far.

Being ‘close friends’ with parents of DC in your DC’s class at school / who are friends of your DC has some big drawbacks.

I wouldn’t host Cindy at all again, given her bad behaviour when you’ve hosted.

Would seek to talk to the school (class teacher) about the alleged recent incidents.

If there is grounds, would significantly reduce DD’s social contact with the two girls outside school. Wouldn’t seek to change her class unless the school recommends it.

I mean this kindly but I'm not sure what you would have expected. Firstly you don't actually know what the children did or didn't say, it's all gossip and hearsay now several times removed. If that was your child I expect you would have admonished her severely but would you really have called the other mother and upset her by saying "your daughter doesn't know but my daughter called her x and had to speak to the head teacher about it".

Kids can be mean. My son has had his run ins at school but no parent has ever contacted me to report on what their children have said or done - friends or not.

Children form new friendships all the time. I had a real love hate relationship growing up with the daughter of my Mum’s best friend. I had my own friends, we sometimes saw each other but weren't that close and our Mum’s are still very best friends.

Keep encouraging your daughter to make other friends, arrange play dates and activities with them and say to the other mums if they ask that you love hanging out with them but your daughter is starting to form other friendships - happens all the time. They will probably all be best friends again in weeks.

I don’t think I could socialise
With them after this , not for a while
DD also needs to understand that you have zero tolerance for bullying

I’d be vague for now and say something like ‘DD isn’t having a great time right now so we are having
Some 1:1 time. I’m sure you all know how it is !

DD sadly also needs to understand that some people are bad friends , and she should spread her wings

You are encouraging your dd to branch out with other friendships which is great and I would continue to facilitate that. In regards to the other children's mums if you are friends it is strange to me that they didn't mention anything to you.

Kids friendships have their ups and downs and are difficult to navigate. I do not think it is wise to be such good friends with the parents of your child's friends. It was always going to be awkward if there were fallouts or bullying. I would back off the friendship and see if they reach out to you. Your dd should be your first priority and I would do some fun things with her over Easter and just expend time together to cheer her up. She needs to be shown that you are supporting her.

Do they really don’t know? Because if they don’t then you should have a major problem with school. At my daughters school they would phone you if you’re child had gone to the head teachers office for any misdemeanour. I think you are being relied on for childcare by someone who know how bad their child’s behaviour is.

Does your daughter want long term the friendship to continue? Or does she want it to end? That’s the key.

If you back off to cool down the other two will get used to meeting without her, would this make her sad? Or relieved? Think of the long term outcome you want.

If she ultimately wants to be friends I would work through it, meet up but maybe make a calm comment about dd being upset and ask them to help you monitor the 3 of them behaviour wise. Gangs of 3 girls, especially at 8, are always a nightmare. Don’t be surprised in a year or so if your daughter is one of the pair being mean and excluding another.

Maybe what you see as ‘acting if nothing has happened’ is more a ham-fisted way of trying to sort things out. By inviting your daughter and expressly including her they are just trying to be nice, to make up for the bad. Many people struggle to discuss these things. Many parents deal with it sadly by simply avoiding the child their child as hurt as they can’t confront the issue, and ending up compounding the hurt.

Whatever you do though, stuff the play dates at yours for a while. Hosting that behaviour is a nightmare, let the professionals at waster club etc

Separate the girls relationship from the adults.
Don’t offer or host play dates but you could still meet the mums for coffee etc without the children (although this is easier when they are in school)
They may genuinely not know about the issues between the girls and I wouldn’t bring it up if they don't. It may still be possible to carry on a relationship with them that doesn’t include dc.
However you do need to consider that they know and either don’t believe it or don’t care. If that happens you should withdraw and you and your ds seek friendships elsewhere .

I agree with separating the relationship with the girls from the adults. It's a learned skill, but honestly makes everything much easier.

Secondly, you should go directly to school and find our information about a) what happened b) what the school's response was c) whether their parents were informed d) what will happen if it happens again.

There are so many assumptions in your post @PutItInNeutral and I know as a parent we get so much second/third hand information but my dc are all a bit older than yours now and my advice is based on years of learning and watching friendships go sour b/c of incorrect information between parents/families. It's much better to let school handle things. If you go directly and find out what the response is, that will guide your steps.

In the history of parenting I think only 1% of the time when a friend speaks to Mum friends about their dc's behaviour, does it end well. That's why schools informing parents and requesting actions (apology etc) is best. Then it's out in the open and isn't coming between friendships.

In your shoes I'd cool things off a bit anyway. Sounds like there's lots of issues. Encourage your dd to be friends with many children in her class. Don't get drawn into the besties bubble with other mums and their dc. It always backfires.

@kittycorner such good advice.

OP I think your own anxiety, your expat status and your friendship circle is playing into this far too strongly. I had a quick look at your previous update and felt the same there. Children say all sorts of nonsense. Do not consider moving schools. Unpleasant behaviour for a few weeks by 8 year old girls is I'm afraid par for the course and as @kittycorner said don't assume you have the full story at this point.

Speak to the school and don't let your daughter feed off your own upset and anxiety - encourage her to mix with other friends and ensure her class teacher is supportive of this. Model resilience and move on. It will be an important skill in the years ahead.

Yes to separating your friendships from DDs even if it means declining some events. It sounds like the kids may be being pushed together because it suits the adults. If left a bit more natural the kids friendships may or may not last but that’s ok. Try as hard as you can to not let your daughter overhear discussions about who know what. Hope your DD is ok.

I would just text back saying that your DD isn't up for any playdates and you will not be taking them to the easter event as Cindy and Phoebe have been bullying her and could they please deal with their daughters behaviour.

Then I'd let your DD pick 2 other friends to take with her and ignore Cindy and Phoebe until they apologise. Spiteful little cows.

I don’t get involved with kids squabbles unless it is rude behaviour in my home or bullying.

I read your last thread and I would reply to the mums and say your DD isn’t keen at the moment after the most recent falling out.

See what they come back with. But Cindy is rude. And you shouldn’t put up with it. I’ve unfortunately lost a close friend as his children were brought up terribly and it wasn’t something I was willing to deal with any more.

Thanks for feedback and suggestions, everyone. The comments about my friendship with the Mums is spot on, I now realize. I’m too invested, which is why I’m reacting badly. And seeing my DD so sad is just making things worse.

I’ve planned out a few more activities with other families and kids during this Easter Break. My DD needs to know that Cindy and Phoebe aren’t the only friends in the world. I think this will help ease her nerves returning to school next week.

As for me, it’s time I made friends further afield. Where we live, we’re just coming out of lockdown, and it’s a decent size city. Time for new activities and hobbies, and non PTA volunteering. I appreciate everybody’s time.