To think older drivers should be re-tested

[katedan]

I have just read a SM discussion about older ( 70+) drivers and if they should be retested or have medicals to keep their drivers licences. It got quite confrontational on the discussion as those who were older felt it was unfair to generalise. This is an issue close to my heart as my dad now early 80s does not understand the risks associated with age around slower reflexes and impact of impaired memory on driving. Surely most people over 70 will consider themselves still as sharp as before and sadly people with dementia etc are not aware it is happening as it is the people around them that notice first so compulsory medicals and re testingg every 5 years over 70 would ensure drivers on the road were still safe to themselves and others. So AiBU?

@skirk64

Testing older people is a good step but there are plenty of other things that should be brought in more urgently.

1. Require multiple tests as you buy bigger and more powerful cars, in the same way we have with motorcycle licences. If a 17yo wants to ride a motorbike you can't immediately jump on a 1000cc superbike, they have to start with a small capacity bike and gain experience first. The same should be the case with larger cars like SUVs and powerful cars.

1. Newly-qualified drivers should not be able to carry passengers for three years.

1. Newly-qualified drivers should be restricted to 50mph in their first year, and 60mph in their second.

re #3 - Australia have similar with the P1 (1yr) and P2 (2yr) licence (after passing test). They are limited to 90km/h and then 100km/h, until they get their 'full' / unrestricted licence.

Yanbu. MIL in her 70s hit another car head on and wrote it off. If both vehicles had not been 4x4 there would most certainly have been life changing injuries or fatalities. She was very defensive and didn't feel like she was at fault as she was tired from caring for FIL.

I don't think they should have to be tested again, BUT, I think they should have to be assessed by a specially trained instructor, for perhaps an hour. They can then raise concerns with the DVLA if there are any issues.

@Onlinedilema

It's just not feasible is it? People are expected to work until almost 70 now. No car no job for many people. Not everyone lives in a eutopia of limitless, cheap, plentiful, safe public transport. I'm always amazed when posters think we do. It's laughable really. The government won't bring in mandatory testing for those over 70, these people are a heavy proportion of their voters they just won't do it.

Exactly.

The group with the most accidents are the young drivers. However, the insurance industry have tried to tackle this issue and reduce young driver accidents. It will be impossible to get this down to zero because of the lack of experience, but efforts have been made by the introduction of black boxes which most insurance companies require the under 21's to have. Further, I have seen several policies which have a clause from allowing a young driver to carry only young passengers/passengers of the same age.

The DVLA have also worked to tackle this problem by introducing new driver regulations, so if a new driver received 6 points within the first two years of passing their test, their licence is automatically revoked and they have to complete both parts of their tests again.

Some of these are relatively new, some have been around for a while.

The problem is there is then no regulation for drivers over 70. Personally I'd support more regulation over the whole driving population and this should be increased when a driver is over 70, due to slower response times. Someone up thread suggested a theory type test to demonstrate awareness of risk and reaction times. Much more effective and should be rolled out across the population if possible, with referrals for a full driving test if someone fails it.

Actually, the problem is that some drivers over 70 don´t accept they are past it, it dents their pride and self esteem. Luckily my mum and uncle both gave up driving of their own accord. Another relative only gave up after he suffered three accidents in six months, mostly busy turnings and roundabouts where you need to be quick and on the ball. He wasn´t. He only gave up when his wife begged him to.

@LindaEllen

I don't think they should have to be tested again, BUT, I think they should have to be assessed by a specially trained instructor, for perhaps an hour. They can then raise concerns with the DVLA if there are any issues.

This already happens where old people are reported to DVLA.

I had a distant relative by marriage who was such an awful driver several family members reported him to DVLA. They invited him to take an assessment with an instructor which he somehow managed to pass, then carried on driving around almost never indicating, stopping without warning and going at random speeds that had no relationship to the conditions or speed limits.

This "retest the oldies" is stupid populist idea

@FlatCheese

I'm not sure the stats about older drivers hold out if we're talking per mile, rather than per driver. IME older drivers tend to become self limiting - avoid motorways or unfamiliar roads, only drive short local trips. Perhaps we need to consider whether you should be able to drive on any road safely in order to hold a license.

Why?

If someone is competent & self limiting why should they need to be tested on roads they will never drive on?

My Elderly Aunt drives very safely & competently at the appropriate road speed etc, never has any little accidents & I'm more than happy as her passenger. She's completely fine if there are road works/diversions etc. But she will not drive on the motorway - it's bad where we are. Why should she lose her independence because people drive badly on the motorway & she has no intention of using it!?

I agree although I think the solution is to test everyone every 5 years and allocate their license according to the size of engine they can drive.

A couple of years ago I was walking down the road with my 2 DC. They stopped to look in a toy shop window. We then moved on and turned a corner, just in front of us, about 10 meters a person ran a red light and crashed into the traffic lights where we would have been if we hadn't have stopped. The elderly gent had had a funny turn at the wheel of his massive BMW, gone through the lights, and hit the traffic light so hard it was crushed.

Another time I was in a car park that fit about 20 cars. I was the only car in there. An elderly lady drove in and crashed into my car. I was shocked. It was the only car in there. She got out and apologised as her "eyesight wasn't very good".

No matter what our age, some people shouldn't be driving. They can kill someone and their right to drive around and go places does not trump someone's right to be alive.

I agree, my dad had to sit some tests before he could drive again after having a minor stroke. They tested reactions to potential hazards on some sort of simulator and he failed the first attempt. He was gutted. I'm sure some of the driving I've witnessed recently from older people who have spent most of the last year in their own houses, and perhaps getting out of practice with driving, would not meet the reaction times needed in that test to get their licence back.

In the town where I live, a man in his 80s ran through a pedestrian area at speed and killed five people. His grandson was in the car. At the inquest he said it would have been better if he'd died in the accident.

Am I in favour of testing for older drivers? Absolutely.

YANBU at all. A 91 Yr old woman mounted the pavement outside my work last year and killed a 3 Yr old child. I witnessed it and it still haunts me to this day.
I drive through the city every day and see so many very elderly people driving dangerously. My dad is in his 70's and he also agrees with retesting. So many people posting and in RL saying they have an elderly relative/neighbour who's driving is questionable. Report them. One life taken is one life too many.

Drivers aged 17 to 21 are 3 to 4 times more likely to have an accident than a driver over 70.
So re testing every 5 years won't solve that particular problem.

WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants - I'm not suggesting your aunt should lose her license if she doesn't want to drive on the motorway as long as she's safe and competent where she does drive. Pretty much like where you're only allowed an automatic license if you take your test in an automatic car, should there be restricted licenses e.g. only allowed to drive during the day if your night vision is poor or only allowed up to 50mph roads if your reactions are not as good. I think it's Australia maybe? where there's the concept of a local license.

My PIL are always suggesting my DC go in their car with them. We were behind them once in our car and my FIL went round the first roundabout the wrong way and then nearly crashed at a T junction when he pulled out right in front of an oncoming car. a few minutes later. My MIL gets arsey with me when I say no, they are not going in your car. Luckily my DH says it too.

No. (Not least because it took me five fucking attempts to pass mine because I was paralysed with nerves )

Maybe there should be some kind of assessment but different from the driving test itself.

Perhaps some off-road measurable aptitude tests that can't be judged subjectively, for example, defiitely an eyesight test, a reflex test, a spatial awareness test. I didn't do the hazard perception test when I was learning but some version of that?

We'll all be singing a different song when we approach 70 ourselves of course!

I've been out today and because of this thread took more notice of drivers of all ages out of curiosity.

I know it's only a snap shot but the older people where driving within speed limits much more than the younger folk.
Dual carriageway with 50mph speed limit, I got overtaken three times.
1 Van, 1 Mercedes and 1 VW golf. (I was doing 50)

Town centre 20mph (semi pedestrianised) Yes you've guessed it younger drivers exceeding speed limits. including one twat on a scooter.
And to cap it all, there are some parking spaces in front of the shops (half hour parking) one SUV parked over two parking spaces. Yes you've guessed it again. Women in mid thirties age bracket.

Assessments I'm all for, but if you're going to do it, then do it for all and secondly I'd add people can all do an assessment and get through it and then drive like an idiot within an hour afterwards.

Perhaps they should be realistic assessments. Go on the school run with a young mum and a couple of kids, see how their driving and parking is then. Or sit with the amazon driver or supermarket delivery driver. Or with youngsters going out with their mates of an evening. Or with the sales rep that is late for a meeting.

To a pp who asked what if people don't pass the refresher: then they shouldn't be driving
It isn’t sustainable to have thousands of people across the country losing their licences and their jobs and their homes. People can’t just “make an effort” or “be very careful that they pass”. That’s not how driving tests work. And passing a test easily doesn’t make you a safe driver. My DBro who passed first time has written off two cars. It took me five attempts because I was nervous but I’ve never had an accident. If we were re tested I fully expect he would pass and I would fail, despite me being the safer driver.

Agree - but lots of bad drivers under 70, especially at the younger end of the age spectrum.

I think everyone should have to do a refresher course every 5 years or so. Not a formal test (except maybe if you have a serious driving offence but isn't that the case anyway) but definitely a half day's course. Things change, there are new signs and there will be a new Highway Code soon. I can think of a few areas where I think drivers need some extra tuition eg behaviour around cyclists and around pedestrians at side roads.

And GPs should have to see in person anyone over 80 who is still driving and make sure they are still healthy enough to, and get off their bottoms and write to the DVLA if they have reason to believe that they are not. 70 is too young though, most 70 year olds are still mentally and physically competent.

I work in car insurance and honestly all drivers should be re-tested every 10 years but it's really not the older drivers causing the accidents. It's those under the age of 25. The worst accidents you get are at speed and those tend to be the younger drivers (there's a reason their insurance is so expensive).

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Older people account for 10% of all drivers, but only 6% of all road accidents.

If we want to reduce road deaths, the age group we should be targeting is young people.

25% of all fatal road accidents involve drivers under 25, even though they only account for 7% of drivers and, on average, drive less than older people. Of these, three-quarters are male.

Funny how I never see SM posts demanding that young men are banned from the roads, or subjected to re-testing.

This!

I’m sick to death of the smug casual ageism on here, it’s disgusting.

Driver went through (literally) a lamp post near us, left it lying flat on the ground. Estimated 80mph in 30mph limit, town centre. He walked away, passenger may not have survived. Driver was in his 20s.

Anecdotes about accidents we know about aren’t a good basis for decisions.

@Sparklingbrook

I know of a few people still working and driving to their jobs (one that drives for his job). Failing a retest although ensuring safety would be a catastrophe for them.

So drive properly then and don't fail? If he drives for his job, he should be a good driver. He's statistically more likely to have an accident than other drivers because he's on the road more.

Retests should be done every 5 years for everyone. If you fail, you then have to take lessons and retest again.

This is to save lives. If you actually use the argument of 'but it costs so much', you're effectively valuing the average person's life as less than that. That's just sick.

@ClarkeGriffin as I explained in a subsequent post he gets regular checks at work as do all the drivers. So no need for your confusion.
This may not be the same everywhere though-I am not an expert in driving jobs.