SHOULD we be teaching religion in schools?

[JustSleepAlready]

In light of recent events. I don’t think teaching about different religions is a negative thing per say- it promotes knowledge, understanding, and CHOICE. I’m not sure if I agree with specific schools for specific religions tho, perhaps this is mind blocking kids to other possibilities /beliefs in life?? Like I say, I’m not sure. I’m not religious, have never practiced religion. I have nothing against anyone because of their religion. I guess I would have something against you if you mean harm to me or my family ( despite your religion. Although if it’s BECAUSE of your religion I guess in a way I am against it?). What do others think? I’m in no way skating or referring to any single religion. As a ND person, just wondering what others think?

I think most people agree we need to teach about religion.

What most people I know dislike is state funded schools belonging to particular denominations whereby that faith is presented as true and is made part of school culture and ethos, outside of the religious studies type curriculum. At our local state primary Christianity is strongly presented as the default. The governors are required to be a ratio of something like 10 provided from the local church and 2 from among parents and the fact that some/many pupils are atheists who don't follow that religion at home is not acknowledged. This, to me, is unacceptable, yet it's the standard for many of the CofE primary schools in the UK.

Yes schools should teach about religions. But right now RE takes up WAY too much curriculum time. It's like an obsession. Teach comparative religion in Y5 or 6, then again in Y8. Keep it as a GCSE and/or Alevel option. Every other year, the slot currently occupied by RE should be devoted to philosophy and social science (particularly politics). It's shocking that RE is taught every term of primary school, and the basics of their own participatory democracy are taught precisely never.

Religious studies should continue to be taught. It's important from a historical and cultural pov to learn about religions. I also think there should be more teaching of philosophy, ethics and critical thinking, either as part of a combined subject with RS (which already includes elements of that), or as a separate subject.

Instruction in following a religion should absolutely not be taught in any schools imo, nor should religion be presented as fact in school RS.

My dc went to a CofE primary because it was our village school (and almost all tye others nearby were also CofE anyway. Fortunately it was very church 'lite', with no pushing of faith.

@tangerinelollipop

Religion, spirituality and morality are all positive for society.

People need to stop trying to destroy them.

Is religion always a positive for society?

I can think of a fair few negatives

Plus you can teach and discuss morality and separate it from religion

I’m ok with teaching of.. but introduce more ethics and thinking into it

I went to a catholic school and would absolutely never send my child to one, based on my experience.

We had to pray multiple times a day, learnt very little about other religions and even had a skimmed down version of sex education based around religious belief.

I believe in teaching about religion, much the same as teaching about history as I think it’s useful and provides background to many other things in life, but not if you’re only promoting one aspect.

Of course, of course we should be teaching it! No question about it.

Ignorance leads to mistrust, suspicion and discrimination of those of different faiths. To learn about a religion and understand it helps remove the “otherness” and promotes tolerance, which is imperative in a multicultural nation.

My kid learns about Hindu, Muslim and Christian traditions at pre-school. I absolutely love that and wish I’d been given the opportunity as a child. My only wish is that they did more on Judaism which is not a well represented faith around here, but more than the others I think needs to be promoted as anti-Semitism is still very much alive and well.

@BrumBoo

RE should be replaced by Sociology/Social Studies in both primary nd secondary, with absolutely no reference to any religion being 'true'. Learn about festivals, rituals, places of worship and (for older children) absolutely open up a debate about morality within religion. The subject would also include other aspects of social studies of course, such as sex inequality, why stereotypes are bad, class division, some philosophy (NOT 'Be Kind' wankery), immigration and emigration, international politics etc.

All religious schools need to be ended ASAP. Religion as 'fact' has no place in schools.

Festivals, etc are all part of the current religion curriculum.

I don't disagree on the sociology aspect but I'm not sure how you would separate wankery and non wankery philosophy.

I did psychology at school and loved it, thought Freud taught the biggest load of absolute nonsense I've ever known in my life but still had to learn it.

Is religion always a positive for society?

I sometimes think about the old Roman Empire. We would be horrified today of what they would have considered to be 'ethical' and 'moral' (I'm not even sure if those were even concepts back then)

A lot of work has been done by religions over the centuries to achieve the 'morality' we have as a society today. It has permeated much of what we currently consider to be 'good' and 'bad'.

That's why I don't believe religion is as useless as some want to make it out to be

@tangerinelollipop

Is religion always a positive for society?

I sometimes think about the old Roman Empire. We would be horrified today of what they would have considered to be 'ethical' and 'moral' (I'm not even sure if those were even concepts back then)

A lot of work has been done by religions over the centuries to achieve the 'morality' we have as a society today. It has permeated much of what we currently consider to be 'good' and 'bad'.

That's why I don't believe religion is as useless as some want to make it out to be

This is a good point and actually I’d like to see this debate in schools

Now though there’s a lot of sexism and women endure a lot under the guise of religion

Another discussion topic

So maybe teach the basics neutrally to younger years then in older years some big topics can be discussed well

Change can be good but religions can keep the patriarchal as it runs through families to young dc

I sometimes think about the old Roman Empire. We would be horrified today of what they would have considered to be 'ethical' and 'moral' (I'm not even sure if those were even concepts back then)

You're kidding, right?! The most famous philosophers and proponents of ethics and morals are from those times, and what they wrote about is still very much studied and relevant today!

No I don't think it should be taught in schools. And I wouldn't agree it promotes knowledge and understanding.

DS goes to a secondary in a very diverse inner city school, and religion is mandatory until Y11.

For me the issue is that there is going to be people who are offended at some stage, whether it's Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, and in the rush to be non offensive, so one ever says anything.

It's definitely freedom of speech/freedom of religion, and think that teaching should mostly be left alone, the same way that issues being discussed in Parliament are protected.

@lazylinguist

I sometimes think about the old Roman Empire. We would be horrified today of what they would have considered to be 'ethical' and 'moral' (I'm not even sure if those were even concepts back then)

You're kidding, right?! The most famous philosophers and proponents of ethics and morals are from those times, and what they wrote about is still very much studied and relevant today!

And this!

Going back to actually teaching ethics and morality in schools

lollipop I suspect the Romans would equally be horrified by some of the things we consider moral and ethical. I don't see a lot of absolutes here. My DD1 is a Classics student and we have frequent discussions about morality through the ages - the differences aren't as great as you might like to think. Attitudes towards homosexuality in ancient Greece were a lot more progressive (though not perfect by any means) as those found among many people who currently style themselves believers. The progress of morality is by no means linear.

What we as modern humans consider 'good' morals are also pretty much common across many of the world's major and minor faiths, and are shared by many people who do not believe - they are principles that order a society so that it can function. They don't come from any great goodness; they are mostly pragmatic. Religion cannot and should not be allowed to claim credit for morality.

I think it is hugely important to include religion in schools.

I say that from a non religious family, with a son who attends a Catholic school.

I've just watched a programme called, 'Being Jewish', on BBC i-player. It was on TV a few days ago apparently. It was really good, not exactly in-depth but 'nice' and heartfelt. There are programmes about other faiths as part of a series which I will watch.

I think it's really important to teach children about different religions.

I'm not too bothered about religious schools existing (my DC went to a religious school despite not being part of that religion). However, I think that religious schools should be required to teach all children about a good range of other religions and beliefs as well- to ensure that they have an understanding of other cultures. My DC school required everyone to take GCSE RE and on the face of it this included looking at other religions and discussing how followers of different religions view issues. In reality they were able to choose a variant of the course that was mainly Catholicism with a short section on Judaism. To my mind this was a lost opportunity to help the children understand other cultures.

I'm quite conflicted by this. I had excellent RS lessons in school, two young, cool atheist teachers who gave really good, fun and informative lessons. As a result, despite being atheist I'm more than happy for people to follow whichever religion they want. I understand differences between local communities and I'm sensitive to the difference and similarities between us.
However, during lockdown I was helping DD with her RS homework. She had to read around a particular religious event. I read it too and the more I read the more horrified I became at the misogynistic, brutal event that underpinned it (as I suspect is similar in many religions). I had clearly missed these nuances as a child, but now through my adult eyes I'm really struggling to understand how people can agree with it to the point of celebrating it. I would never say anything to any of my religious friends, but I do look at them differently now.
My answer would be to teach philosophy and ethics, concentrating on developing critical thinking skills and tolerance.

Religion cannot and should not be allowed to claim credit for morality
I don't see a lot of absolutes here

I agree broadly but I think it goes beyond trying to 'claim credit'.

Think of cultures that accepted human sacrifices (I can think of the Mayans, just to give an example). It's not clear to me that morality or ethical standards would have spontaneously, consistently and organically developed globally over the years. 'Mainstream' religions have had a key role to play in what we see today as acceptable (in most of the world perhaps?). I'm not making any value judgements here, it's just what is apparent to me in terms of how ideas emerged and evolved.

The subject would also include other aspects of social studies of course, such as sex inequality, why stereotypes are bad, class division, some philosophy (NOT 'Be Kind' wankery), immigration and emigration, international politics

This is what I find problematic. Eagerness to replace RE in schools with topics where it's virtually impossible to remain neutral and impartial. Given the choice, I would stick to religion TBH

lollipop if schools are meant to teach 'British' values (which they are), then some of the social studies stuff comes into that. And in some issues, there is no neutral - stereotypes being an obvious one. I wonder what you're so concerned about in terms of schools not being neutral - is it the 'left wing agenda'?

I also think neutrality is not necessarily a great virtue - you need room for all views to be expressed, but some views do need challenging - I'm thinking of someone in a classroom coming out with extreme right wing ideology or hate speech. As someone whose children were told to 'fuck off back home' the day after the EU referendum (they were born here), I feel strongly that some views can't just be left to stand in discussions on morals and ethics. Standing by quietly is collusion in those situations.

[quote JustSleepAlready]@whenthebellsring

I wasn’t complaining at all. I was told what school I was going to, I didn’t get to choose. It was based on geographical, family, availability etc. I was sent to a school which was previously A school which only accepted a certain religious group of students. Years later, it was changed to an all encompassing, all welcoming school of all faiths. I was purely stating that we were gently pushed towards a certain persuasion. Perhaps I should have said that first.[/quote]
@JustSleepAlready Sorry when I said 'choosing to attend a religious school and complaining about the religion', it was more a general you though because I realised the decision to go to that school would likely not have been made by you
(Unless you were allowed to choose). Didn't intend to make it personal

I also understand now what you mean about the school. Thanks for explaining.

Yes but it shouldn't be taught as fact, just as belief.

@tangerinelollipop

Is religion always a positive for society?

I sometimes think about the old Roman Empire. We would be horrified today of what they would have considered to be 'ethical' and 'moral' (I'm not even sure if those were even concepts back then)

A lot of work has been done by religions over the centuries to achieve the 'morality' we have as a society today. It has permeated much of what we currently consider to be 'good' and 'bad'.

That's why I don't believe religion is as useless as some want to make it out to be

Plenty of what we find moraly acceptable today, like women's equality or gay rights, has been despite religion rather than because if it.