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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - brothers crimes are mine?

56 replies

guiltybyassociation · 27/03/2021 00:02

I am absolutely raging and I'm not sure if I'm overreacting so would really appreciate some opinions.

Background: 9 years ago my brother and I set up a company (let's call it XYZ Ltd), both of us Directors, with the intention of doing up houses and selling them on. I ended up feeling uncomfortable about it as it felt like a big risk for both of us and so 3 months later I told my brother I wanted out and resigned as a Director. This is all visible at companies house and appears when you google my (relatively unusual) name.

3 years ago my brother was arrested on serious drugs charges (selling). He is currently serving a 10 year sentence.

Fast forward to today; I have a great, hard earnt career that spans over 12 years. I'm highly regarded in my field. I love my brother dearly, but we are completed different people who took completely different paths in life. He is my biggest cheerleader to be honest and regrets his choices massively.

I had a job interview on Thursday with a fairly small company. It went amazing and the CEO pretty much offered me the job at the end of it. All great. Then today, the recruiter phoned me and said that the CEO had just been doing some further research into me and wanted to know more about XYZ Ltd. In 12 years and 4 jobs I have never been asked about this. I knew immediately that the CEO had obviously found something about my brother. I told the recruiter the above, said I felt incredibly uncomfortable at feeling forced to into a corner with it, but I have nothing to hide but she was adamant it was an innocent question and nothing to do with that.

An hour later the CEO rings me, said that he purposely didn't tell the recruiter he knew about my brother because he wanted to see if I would 'Fess up' but now that I had he was willing to forget about it and proceed to an offer.

I am absolutely furious. In my mind I have absolutely nothing to 'fess up' to. I am not my brothers keeper. I feel like it is a complete invasion of privacy and that my private life has been laid out to be judged, and that even if I took the job after all this, my reputation there will always be tainted by it. I'm also concerned that this is going to start a domino effect in the Industry of people associating this with me.

So my AIBU;
Yes - brothers record and my involvement with him make it fair game for an interview
No - complete overstep by the CEO

OP posts:
Original poster
guiltybyassociation · 27/03/2021 06:49

Also, sorry for the dramatic title, I don't think he was implying my brothers crimes are mine in any way, shameless clickbait!

OP posts:
Geamhradh · 27/03/2021 06:55

What is odd is that they clearly didn't just Google you and your involvement with the company. They went on to do further research about your brother.
As you said, a DBS wouldn't have shown any of this, (obviously) yet this firm is effectively going further than a DBS would.
I do get why they'd be concerned about your professional judgement, maybe thinking the business was set up as some kind of front to launder any money your brother was making from his drugs offences and you knew it. But if so, that's some strange extrapolating they're doing
It's all a bit of a leap on their part though.

I don't think I'd accept it.

Etinox · 27/03/2021 06:57

Poor phrasing from your potential boss. Be alert and good luck in your new job! Flowers

FrogOfFrogHall · 27/03/2021 07:31

I don't think he is judging you for your brothers crimes as he is clearly not bothered about the crime he was looking to see if you are honest.

However he went about it in the wrong way, if he was concerned about criminal associates he should have asked you if any of your close friends or family have been convicted of crime first and then done his research. Not expect you to declare it under indirect questioning.
I think this indicates his inexperience with recruitment and staff vetting and a lack of policy / procedure / planning around this which is probably common in a small company.

Whether you should accept the job depends on how much you want it and how much you think a lack of policies and procedures (in general) is likely to bother you at work. Ie. Things might not always be done fairly or in a planned way, which could be to your benefit or detriment.

sunnydaleslayer · 27/03/2021 07:41

This sort of game playing is not normal in any business I have been involved in.

Agree with this.

That type of silly manipulation from a CEO would put me off.

Beautiful3 · 27/03/2021 08:02

I would take the job, if I wanted it. Then spoken to hr about it, and explain how it made me feel. They will pull him up on it and advice him not to do it again.

billy1966 · 27/03/2021 08:10

He sounds like an arse and comes across as very unprofessional.

Is it a small family company?

MimiSunshine · 27/03/2021 08:15

@bastaebasta

It's not that your brother's crimes are yours. It's that someone you chose to go into business with - presumably not just a fellow director, but a fellow shareholder too - turned out to be a criminal. It raises a question about your professional judgement.

You're not being asked about your brother. You're being asked about a former business partner. You're the one making this personal.

Wrong. She didn’t go in to business with someone who turned out to be a criminal. That would suggest they already were and she failed to do any due diligence that would have flagged it which yes would raise questions about her professional judgement.

What actually happened was she went I to business, then resigned from it and a long time afterwards that person became a criminal.

Totally different, plus had that business never have been set up then the criminal would still be related to her.
There are some jobs (like the police) where you need to disclose any family connections to convicted criminals but it doesn’t sound like this is one of them so why should the OP need to ‘fess up’ to her brothers crimes?

RaspberryCoulis · 27/03/2021 08:18

You were the director of a company with someone who is now serving a long sentence for serious crimes.

Of course they are going to want to ask about that. The fact he's your brother is irrelevant.

ame88 · 27/03/2021 08:18

Ooo this angered me for you!! My brother has also served time in prison and if that was bought up against me I would be furious!
Completely understand them asking about the company but not you 'fessing up' - he doesn't sound like someone I would want to work with!

RaginSpice · 27/03/2021 08:20

It’s entirely appropriate they question you on previous directors that have criminal convictions, it’ll feel different to you because it’s your brother.

I agree, the “fess up” comment would make me stop and think. I wouldn’t let this put me off though, honesty will be important in your role, see it as poorly worded due diligence if no other flags.

Tinydinosaur · 27/03/2021 08:25

I think the "fess up" was a bit silly but I think it's quite normal to want more information, especially as you were director for such a short time. It does seem a little suspect. You weren't really cornered, they just asked you a question about a previous company you were director of.

Moondust001 · 27/03/2021 08:33

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

You had a business and family connection to a serious criminal. In some professions they would expect that to be disclosed. I think it will partly depend what the job is. I work in financial services and I would expect something like this to get picked up in the due diligence process. If you have a job where people are relying on your honesty then I do think you have to address the connection.
No you don't. If "some professions" expect disclosure about relatives who have committed crimes then they should ask, not try to trap someone. It is not ok to sneak around and lie to people to see if they tell you something - they either have a legitimate right to know, in which case there is a formal and proper process for disclosures, or they have no right to know.

There is also a significant difference between having a right to know about something that could lead to, for example, blackmail; and judging someone because of a relationship.

I'd tell them to stuff the job where the sun doesn't shine.

Hamhockandmash · 27/03/2021 08:54

@Foolingaround

An hour later the CEO rings me, said that he purposely didn't tell the recruiter he knew about my brother because he wanted to see if I would 'Fess up' but now that I had he was willing to forget about it and proceed to an offer

This sort of game playing is not normal in any business I have been involved in.

This. Sorry but this is not normal at all. I would not be working for this guy at all.
FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 27/03/2021 09:44

I am torn on this. I know you see it as your private life but it's not private, its public for anyone to google. And I think a lot of people would google it. I do a quick online stalk of Instagram and Facebook of tradespeople coming to the house, just because I don't want anyone with any sy racist or xenophobic views in my house. And I think a lot of people would have searched the one other director of the one company you have been involved with, as it's a close connection.

But yes 'fess up' and making you 'pass tests' would make me feel uncomfortable and I can see why you do. On the other hand, he found something that he wasn't entirely comfortable with and rather than just dismissing you as a candidate, he asked you about it. And then he was honest about it. So I think I'd take his actions in conjunction with how he has come across in the interviews. Or talk to him about it, about why he thinks it was relevant, if you want. I don't think it's a black and white situation given you had a business relationship with a criminal (if it was just a family relationship then thats not relevant) and if you otherwise want the job I wouldnt discount it solely on this man, depending on how closely you will have to work with him etc

lanthanum · 27/03/2021 09:51

Perhaps you should explain to him that you don't really feel your brother's situation is relevant to how well you can do your job. Since he seems to think it is, could he confirm whether he is going to expect to be informed about any contact you might have with your brother when he comes out of prison. His reaction to that might tell you a lot.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 27/03/2021 09:52

Moondust
I don’t think the CEO handled it brilliantly. However, we don’t know what sort of vetting process was in place for the job and what the expectations in the industry are. For my most recent role (senior contracting role) it took me several hours to fill in all the due diligence forms needed.
Due to the need for honesty in the profession non disclosure of something can be more serious than the thing they failed to disclose.

nanbread · 27/03/2021 09:58

It's not a great way to start a new job and it would 100% put me off but I think you need to talk to the CEO about what he (the CEO) did, understand why he did it and see what he's got to say for himself before making a decision.

If you HADN'T mentioned your brother and had just said "oh I started a business many years ago with one of my siblings but it only lasted a few months as I realised it wasn't for me" - all true, and your brother's conviction is completely irrelevant to anything to do with either the business or your new role so no reason you would mention it - you WOULDN'T have got the job.

How fucked up is that?

nanbread · 27/03/2021 10:00

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Moondust I don’t think the CEO handled it brilliantly. However, we don’t know what sort of vetting process was in place for the job and what the expectations in the industry are. For my most recent role (senior contracting role) it took me several hours to fill in all the due diligence forms needed. Due to the need for honesty in the profession non disclosure of something can be more serious than the thing they failed to disclose.
I get this but I unless you work in police, politics, security or other related field I can't see why your sibling having a conviction is at all relevant.
nanbread · 27/03/2021 10:03

@RaspberryCoulis

You were the director of a company with someone who is now serving a long sentence for serious crimes.

Of course they are going to want to ask about that. The fact he's your brother is irrelevant.

Well then bloody ask about it, don't covertly "test" them unknowingly with the job hanging on their answer
ittakes2 · 27/03/2021 10:11

Sorry I think on this occasion you are being too sensitive. When I was young I worked for a man who ended up abusing me. When I eventually told his boss his boss looked into this past and realised he had a prison sentence amongst other things. If these had been checked before he was offered the job he would not have been offered the job. He is about to hire someone into his small company. He wants to be certain of your character and now he is and he was honest about that. He could have never told you he knew but maybe he prefered for everything to be out in the open.

HollowTalk · 27/03/2021 10:15

If you google your name, does your brother's name appear as well? I'm interested in whether they actually googled your brother separately.

CongealedCrags · 27/03/2021 10:27

I'm kind of ambivalent about asking you in the interview, it might have some relevance ornrequire explanation. But how very dare he phone you up an hour later to crow about getting you to "fess up" Shock Imagine working for a man who would revel in what he saw as getting one over on a woman he was in a position of power over - and then phoning her to gloat about it. I bet he really enjoyed that.

LouiseTrees · 27/03/2021 10:32

Has anyone covered that he wanted to ensure that you weren’t a silent parent not taking a directorship clearly and potentially from an AML angle allowing proceeds of crime through the business? I do think to have gone about it the way he did is a bit sly but he’s wholly within his rights to do so

LouiseTrees · 27/03/2021 10:33

@nanbread in answer to your last question, finance and proceeds of crime act or directorship and fitness and proper test under the companies act.

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