To consider a school with a bad ofsted report.

[Bbee29]

DS is 10 and in year 5 and starting to think about secondary school for sept 2022.

He is autistic and has an EHCP.

There are 2 schools he can go to. We live in a village so both require transport. Due to his EHCP he will get a place in either despite that one (the ‘good’ one) of them is over capacity and getting in is hard.

One of them has a good ofsted rating but the other was rated inadequate in 2017 so I can only assume things have improved.

At first I was edging towards the one with the good ofsted but now I’m considering the other despite being inadequate...

1. The good school is massive. The inadequate school is half the size. It’s smaller generally and not at capacity due to the bad report. I feel the smaller school would benefit DS.

1. Most of his friends will be going to the inadequate school as the other is full and most children from surrounding villages go to the smaller one.

1. Despite the bad ofsted some very positive things were written about the sen provision at the school. Things such as ‘children are well supported’ ‘’ make good progress from their starting points etc’ ‘strong provision for pupils who need it’ etc.

1. I like the location better. Sounds silly but the good school is right on a main road and DS often has no sense of danger. The inadequate school is more secluded and seems safer.

1. I’ve heard good things about the sen department at the inadequate school!

So aibu to consider the one that isn’t seen as good? I feel a sense of guilt for sending him to a school rated so badly but I feel the smaller size etc will be better.

I also think that sometimes ofsted isn’t a great reflection of the school.

I went to a school which always had a glowing ofsted, best results in the county etc but that’s all the school cared about. Bullying was rife, it was mainstream but the area was quite snobby and rich. There was very little support for students with sen. So sometimes the schools that look great on paper aren’t so good on practise.

It’s so hard when you can’t visit. I’ve only spoken to the ‘good’ school so far. They seem good but the senco did say that it gets extremely busy in the corridors due to the amount of pupils!

Advice?

Smaller, more provision for your child plus more familiar faces. Considering you have an EHCP so can have more chance to move if it doesn't work out your be crackers to take an on board Ofsted report, which tells you children expected to do well did well at jumping through the rigid hoops of the curriculum and nothing more.

Most people want smaller class sizes, they'll even pay for it.

I don't think you're unreasonable. The school I was originally considering for mine is rated outstanding. However I have heard from many parents that actually their children are miserable, bullying is awful and teachers just care about grades and that's it. I prefer the 'good' school with the kind teachers, messy classrooms and smiley children.

When was the good one rated? There is an outstanding one near me that had its last full inspection 13 years ago yet still trades off the fact it’s outstanding whereas it could have been inadequate for a decade with no one being any wiser!

To me good ofsted actually means huge pressure on kids to perform and hit targets. All that matters to me are that kids are happy and get supported.

@SoWhyNot

When was the good one rated? There is an outstanding one near me that had its last full inspection 13 years ago yet still trades off the fact it’s outstanding whereas it could have been inadequate for a decade with no one being any wiser!

This is very true! Go with your gut, the rating isn’t what’s important, the comments seem positive that you’ve read and it’s a smaller school. You seem to be leaning towards that school so go for it if that’s what you feel.

You need to dig a bit deeper and look at the overall pattern - when was the OFSTED prior to this one and what did it say? Why isn't the school good or better? Chasing 'Outstanding' is daft - many, many schools have the elsusive 'gold standard' rating and either a) don't deserve it b) pull some incredibly underhanded shit to get it or c) got it so long ago and haven't been inspected since so it's meaningless.
And yes - children being very low down the list of priorities is often the mark of an 'Outstanding' school.

The good one was rated in 2013 so 8 years ago! But had had a monitoring visit and short inspection since.

The inadequate one was actually rated outstanding in 2012 before the inadequate a few years later!

The inadequate one has had a new head since too.

This is just all new to me!

The inadequate one is just a lot smaller. It’s capacity is 600 pupils smaller anyway plus it’s not at capacity so maybe this is the best option. I need to speak them in person.

@Bbee29

The good one was rated in 2013 so 8 years ago! But had had a monitoring visit and short inspection since.

The inadequate one was actually rated outstanding in 2012 before the inadequate a few years later!

The inadequate one has had a new head since too.

This is just all new to me!

The inadequate one is just a lot smaller. It’s capacity is 600 pupils smaller anyway plus it’s not at capacity so maybe this is the best option. I need to speak them in person.

The head can make a massive difference and a new head could completely turn around an inadequate school.

Do you have a local Facebook group or similar where you can ask parents their views?

@SoWhyNot. Good idea. I have been asking parents locally. It seems everyone has their own opinions though. It seems the bigger one is more in demand due to the better ofsted and also it seems to have better sporting facilities more modern but neither of these things will affect DS. He doesn’t care how modern the building or about the sports 😂

Ignore the OFSTED. New management can turn it around in a few years if supportive parents send their kids there and you can get an RI inspection result due to a few boxes not being ticked. Same is true in my town. The 'best' school is oversubscribed and has all shiny buildings but the pastoral care is awful. The other is RI but improving rapidly under a new head and definitely on the up.

Meet the head if possible and see what vibe you get. It's not just about the Ofsted rating, especially if you have an "unusual" child. It's more important that the school can meet their particular needs. A school that is performing well and pushing for academics (especially if crowded) may not be the best for a child with additional needs.

We’ve gone for a Requires Improvement school for DS over a Good school. I just got a much better feeling from the RI school - they have a responsive head who genuinely seems to care about pupil wellbeing and that filters down to the staff. The ‘better’ school just came across as a high-pressured environment with little pastoral support. It’s worth trying to speak to parents with children at the school - what do they think and (more importantly) if they say they are happy with the school what are their reasons - are these things important to you or not. Our local ‘good’ school is praised for good results and parents seemed happy but didn’t really know much about what went on at the school. Whereas parents at the school we’ve chosen praised it for the commitment of the teachers, the opportunities given to children, the pastoral care, the communication by staff - all things I think are very important.

My DC attend a secondary that was put in 'special measures' 5 years ago while DS1 was in Y7. The following year, a new head started work and it's now like a completely different school and is now rated Good.

Our local secondary is Inadequate rated. However since that report a Trust has taken over and completely turned things around. It has great results and is oversubscribed. I'm sure that when they reinspect it will be good. It sounds like the same could be true of the school you are looking at.

My point being that things can, and often do, change. Best of luck.

I would put very little stock in an Ofsted report. I have worked in an outstanding school and in an RI school. The children were provided for equally well in both. Ofsted is a meaningless, box-ticking exercise.

I wouldn’t make a decision based in ofsted reports.

Visit when you can, speak to the sencos and really get an understanding of how the school is structured and exactly how they provide for children with SEN. DS’s school is massive but divided into halves. The large site means everything is clear, Eg block a is maths and next to block b languages. The sen team have their own rooms and outside space for students with sen to use when they need to. Each child with sen (with or without EHCP) has a named teaching assistant as a point of contact for them and parents. They have small cards in their blazers saying for eg I don’t need to queue up.
All of these are so important, but won’t be in the Ofsted or the head teachers talks.

What were the main points of concern on the require improvement school?

If it was behaviour or safeguarding that requires improvement, and I had a choice, I would avoid.

I have taught in ‘outstanding’ schools that would definitely not be rated outstanding under the new framework but have not been reinspected for years. They both terrible behaviour issues amongst a lot of other problems, but have continued to get good results and so have avoided triggering an inspection. This is largely due to serious drilling of students in after school, weekend and holiday interventions in y11 and nothing to do with fantastic practice throughout students time at the school. At the same time I have worked with schools labelled inadequate, who have a HUGE incentive to work their socks off to be innovative and turn things around and a new head can make a massive difference.

So basically yanbu. I would definitely consider sending my son to a school that had a poorer ofsted inspection a few years ago and was showing signs of great improvement. I do agree that it’s odd there’s not a more recent report. See what you can find and if it’s positive, it sounds like a good shout to me.

Im a teacher and I wouldn't pay any attention to OFSTED reports / ratings. Ive seen lots a schools with outstanding OFSTEDS that are toxic; and many nice, warm, decent schools that are RI. In fact, I'd actively avoid an "outstanding" school.

"Outstanding" means they ticked the right boxes.

Agree with a pp that those schools can sometimes (not always) be nasty places where the boxes are more valuable than the kids.

Talk to parents, meet teachers if possible, try and get an idea of how they handle things such as bullying and SEND.

An OFSTED report is overrated in my opinion , as others have said its mostly a tick boxing exercise
I was headhunted to work at a failing school, the pastoral care was outstanding but attendance was low, it's the dynamics of the area and no reflection on the school. It's just the way it was. The children were happy, the staff went above and beyond to help pupils learn and be part of that community
I've also worked at schools that were considered outstanding........ I know which one I want my child to go to
Failing schools are closely monitored, OS schools are not

A bad school will more than likely be putting in a hell of a lot more effort to improving its teaching practices than a school that's been 'outstanding' for years and has gone a bit stale.
If you / your child like the school and feel it's a good fit, go for it!
Can you perhaps talk to current parents (is there a Facebook group maybe?) and gauge their experience and opinions.

our secondary school was special measures to good in 4 years