To ask, if you work in the Civil Service/ BBC etc in London and the SE and are asked to move North will you?

[Flumpaphone]

Ok, I know this might be a bit niche.

Following on from the recent announcements of Treasury and Department of International Trade jobs moving to Darlington and BBC jobs going to Leeds, Manchester and Glasgow, I was wondering if people currently in those jobs (or anyone else who might be asked to move out of London) will/would move?

If you would move - why?
If you wouldn't move - why?

My reason for asking is that I'm in the North and I'm trying to work out if all these announcements are genuinely a good thing for the economy or if the only real beneficiaries will be LNER and the regional Premier Inns for a couple of nights a week.

@DiscoJanet

The reality of this for many of the people affected is that the younger (under 30/35) can much more easily go, but older 49/50/60s find it much much harder - children in secondary school, partners with established careers in London, aging parents etc. So the result is mostly redundancy. Which for most people over 50 is absolutely SHIT.

I know many people affected by this in media (not just the BBC) and I genuinely think agism has a big part - so many people get made redundant in media when they get to a certain age and salary, to make room for younger cheaper (and less experienced) workforce. It is so hard to find a job at 50+ in this industry.

This is so true. DH made redundant from a big media role aged 50. Never had a permanent job since. Just impossible to compete with the young people on half the salary.

Do you know what they mean by "optional" Stokey? Does it mean if you don't want to move the job won't? Or, does it mean they will find you a different role?

If it's the former, it doesn't seem much of a grand relocation of Departments.

That was the reason I asked the question really, to try to work out if it's genuine rebalancing or a gimmick which will be a bit disjointed and probably ultimately not that successful.

I would if it was just me but dds were born and raised here and still have to finish secondary and dh doesn't want to move. It's a tough one.

The way it works is not by paying people to relocate (way too expensive) - it's by advertising jobs and saying they must be based outside of London. A number of civil service departments have had great success doing this, and drastically widened the talent pool as there are so many talented people out there who or either unable or unwilling to move to London.

As a senior civil servant I can say it's been immensely beneficial for my department and it's been fab, despite my initial skepticism.

@Flumpaphone

Do you know what they mean by "optional" Stokey? Does it mean if you don't want to move the job won't? Or, does it mean they will find you a different role?

If it's the former, it doesn't seem much of a grand relocation of Departments.

That was the reason I asked the question really, to try to work out if it's genuine rebalancing or a gimmick which will be a bit disjointed and probably ultimately not that successful.

Nobody will have to move, but they might find that it's more difficult to move roles on promotion as so many will be advertised as not based in London.

We know our young G6s and G7s don’t want to relocate to Darlington, because they’ve told us so. We know that we’re competing for talent with law firms with a specialism in competition and consumer law, we know that young grads with these specialisms overwhelmingly want to remain in London.

I’m sure Darlington is great, I’m sure many people with different specialisms live there - just not so much the ones my department pulls from.

I used to work for a department which shifted a lot of jobs out of London. It was mostly achieved by voluntary relocations and local recruitment. Probably just as well, because at one stage it looked as if there might be compulsory transfers and that had the potential to be very divisive.

They can’t force people to relocate but they can restrict all recruitment and promotion opportunities to the regions to reduce London headcount over time. The key thing is getting senior leaders to commit to not replacing London staff.

Presumably if you move out of London you no longer get London weighting? That would be a big factor, as it's a substantial pay cut!

Yes!! A thousand times! Im from the north originally and am based in London after moving here for work a decade ago. Cant wait for the opportunity to be able to keep my job (which i love) and move back closer to my family. I also want my kids to be closer to their grandparents and aunts / uncles on my side. I'm already dreaming on rightmove. Now just to work on London-born DH!

I didn't think anyone had said so far the moves will be compulsory? I thought they were going to be a mixture of voluntary moves, new roles that will be based there and hybrid?

@ComtesseDeSpair, surely there’s plenty of talent in big cities such as Manchester and Glasgow? My DH is a corporate lawyer and has done just fine living in Manchester. Yes, the bank he works for is based in London but as far as I know they’ve never had any trouble recruiting high end staff for their regional offices either here or in Edinburgh. 🤷‍♀️

@MoscowMuse My London born DH came up with me in December and he's now a total northern convert!

In my department it will be optional, and I think there will be relocation support for those that want to move. Other than that, it will be about the balance of jobs being advertised outside of London only, which will then lead to local recruitment and bringing people from other departments or elsewhere thay would like to relocate. We already have a large presence outside of SE England. It has some challenges but the benefits far outweigh those. Im so happy to have been able to get the job I have without working in London, and I'm pleased to see there will be more jobs moving. I just hope other organisations (ie private sector, charities etc) follow the lead.

To answer the original question - some will go, and some will not.
It will depend on personal circumstamces, family, school, all kinds of things.
In some instances, people will be content to move, get a better house, nicer location, etc
In other circumstances, people will not want to move away from friends and family.
The other thing is you really cannot always tell which would be the ones to move and which would not.
There are many Gov departments based around the country. And I certainly think it better for the BBC to have a diversity of people, and locations, etc. That said, I think it likely that news would remain near to Parliament and the centre of Government.

Also where I live in Trafford is full of BBC staff who moved up in the first wave of Salford relocations more than 10yrs ago.

I'm in this position and won't be relocating as my family is settled here. They'll be keeping some staff in London in my dept, but most will have to move north or take redundancy. My guess is that the younger people will move, the older ones will retire, and people like me will just have to hope for the best. The irony of course is that we've just spent the last year proving that our jobs can be done from anywhere. It's horribly unsettling if you're middle aged and do an extremely specialised job!

Of course you are bang on @ComtesseDeSpair not a single talented or ambitious young person to be found in Darlington. No accountants or solicitors either.

@ThreeB - good to hear! He's mostly convinced on the cricket front alone!

Comtesse

Born and bred in the North West I moved to (Outer) London on graduation, hated it and changed careers in order to get out of the place and come back.

Don't want to say exactly what I do now, but I do two jobs, if you drill down to what exactly I do it's rare (probably under 10 people nationally doing those two things together) and generally considered quite high powered, so would be outing. Happy to go head to head on an IQ test with people who say there's more talent in London any time you like!

Comtesse

Oh and I have come across some pretty damn good solicitors and accountants in Manchester and Liverpool and some pretty poor ones in London.

@ComtesseDeSpair

We know our young G6s and G7s don’t want to relocate to Darlington, because they’ve told us so. We know that we’re competing for talent with law firms with a specialism in competition and consumer law, we know that young grads with these specialisms overwhelmingly want to remain in London.

I’m sure Darlington is great, I’m sure many people with different specialisms live there - just not so much the ones my department pulls from.

TSOL or CMA? Either way, I get where you're coming from (I thought that before seeing it in action) but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. There are LOADS of really good solicitors, barristers and commercial professionals who are currently either stuck commuting to London from quite a long way away and would love a job that meant less time on trains, and also lots of brill people working in other cities who don't want to live in London and will happily take the cut in salary/opportunities to live elsewhere. We're missing out on a huge talent pool by only accepting folk who are willing and able to work in London (which can be crap if you're on a G6/G7 salary and stuck somewhere without good schools and paying shedloads for a tiny property).

I'm in Yorkshire - I did work for the Civil Service up to a couple of years ago. The department I was in got a new base in Leeds which created a lot more jobs there - London based internal people were given the option of moving North before they advertised externally. A few did move but almost all of those were from the north originally or had other family links up here. They recognised that they could have a far better quality of life in Yorkshire, property cheaper, shorter commute, lower cost of living for not much smaller salary (compared to the differential in the private sector).

However, we still recruited a significant number of local people externally as those with no connections to the north ( and many who did) were not interested in the move. I always noticed that a significant number of London based Civil Servants seemed to view London as being the only place to be and often acted as though nowhere else in the country properly existed. I recall the then head of the Department deigning to visit our office and seeming genuinely surprised that we were doing some heavyweight work of national importance.

I think it will genuinely be a good thing for the North.

Thank you Havelock that makes it a lot clearer.

@ComtesseDeSpair did it not occur to you that perhaps there are some fabulously talented people in the North, who perhaps haven’t been able to relocate to London?

I can imagine it being difficult or unattractive for some people. Young graduates who start out in London might be reluctant to move to Darlington away from their friends. And couples who are both employed in good jobs might also be reluctant, because unless both work for the civil service, it would undoubtedly mean a pay cut or job loss for the other.

Overall, I think its a good thing to do although I'm a little surprised that Darlington has been chosen. But I suppose in 20 years time, Darlington will be talked about as a hub of talent and high house prices.