AIBU to be concerned about promoting racism and xenophobia?

[Secretlifeofme]

I'll start by saying that I'm a performing arts teacher in a country where we are lucky enough not to have many covid restrictions. Currently thinking about our school production for next academic year and considering two : Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Peter Pan. But looking at the scripts, they're both really problematic in terms of racism ('Red Indians' in Peter Pan ) and xenophobia (the Germanic villains in Chitty). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Have your DC schools put on productions of either of these and if so, how did they handle this?

Any advice gratefully appreciated- it seems as though any musical for which I can get the rights is either racist, sexist, xenophobic or a combination of the above!

I'm not sure 'comedic accents' should be used at all in an international school. I think that dropping accents is a pretty easy thing to do in a play and would not be in contravention of the rights you've bought to the production.

@sst1234 I do take your point, but I guess as a teacher I have always been trained to consider the messages I am giving to students, so it comes from there.

@sst1234

I’m sure that OP’s intentions are good. I can’t help but think of all this as virtue signalling. We are worried about art from a bygone era while in the world today there is ethnic cleansing of Uighars happening and Rhohingyas burned alive in their homes. This is the world we live in today. And yes we can take a stand against two things at once, except most people only choose things which make little to no difference. Sorry, don’t want to hijack this thread, just saying that in the grand scheme of things this is total nonsense.

Yes, but equally we can only do what we can do. The OP is talking about putting on a musical - unless she decided to use it to highlight the plight of the Uighers by putting on a bold, modern performance play about the situation. But that probably wouldnt be appropriate (dont do that OP). So it is reasonable to want to check that she isnt unwittingly reinforcing other prejudices.

I don't really understand how one bad character being from a certain place makes it xenophobic, unless all the characters from that place are the same? So where should any baddies be from so that it isn't xenophobic?

Just take out the German accents (the country is called Vulgaria in the film and I never noticed that the accents were German as a kid anyway) and I reckon Peter Pan can definitely work without the ‘Red Indians’.

On the xenophobia point though, how do you feel about the baddies in American films always being English or Russian?

@skirk64, but as I said above, if I were to avoid using any material that is problematic, I wouldn't be able to put on a musical at all! The very modern ones avoid stereotyping, but you can't get the rights for them, so...

@skirk64 I see your point. I was just thinking that the whole point of the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang people is that they ARE aristocrats - a spoilt king and a marie-antoinette type queen. So makes sense they would talk posh. I also dont think the queen/prince Harry/prince William and all of them are a particularly marginalised or oppressed group.

Also, as an ENglish person I am not at all threatened or upset by the American movie trope of "English villain". Because 1. we are not particurly opressed. 2. American films also portray us as clever and sexy. Which balances out and has helped me in the past. So Im all for it :)

I think any would fine just tweak the plot or characters to make them acceptable. Each play would carry the attitudes, politics and ignorances of their times, but if made today would be very different. I think use your judgement and use it as an opportunity to teach the children why you are changing the now unacceptable elements.

You're over thinking this. I have seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang the musical and the two villains trying to steal the car did have German accents, but I bet you not one person in the audience thought the production was xenophobic. I certainly didn't. Never even crossed my mind. Too busy enjoying it.

skirk64 I don’t think adapting Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (the film itself is apparently a loose adaptation of Fleming’s original) is quite on a par with Islamists blowing up ancient monuments . Unless you consider it to be a central pillar of our civilisation?

Just do the Sound of Music instead.

@FightingTheFoo

This is hilarious. You're worrying about being xenophobic against Germans. I honestly can't stop laughing. I'm sure if my Jewish relations were alive they'd be laughing too. They're dead though. Because of the Nazis.

My DH is German My DC certainly don’t laugh when people ask them if their grandparents worked in the gas chambers or whether they are Nazis I am sorry for your family’s losses but it doesn’t mean we can be xenophobic to an entire nation, especially since the majority of its inhabitants weren’t alive during The Holocaust German does NOT equal Nazi, never has

I may be misremembering but isn't the characterisation of the 'germanic' villains in Chitty mainyl due to the accents they put on? If this is the case, I hardly think it's embedded in the script, nor is it changing a script that you have the rights to, if you choose not to do that and to do a slightly different interpretation without the caricature voices?

also if you can make Peter Pan work without the Indians, I think I heard somewhere that all purchases of the rights go to Great Ormond Street hospital (as JM Barrie had no children of his own so left the rights to his work to the hospital)...which I just think is nice and would encourage me to put on that production instead if possible

There’s so many other musicals too, I’m surprised you’re having trouble getting rights. In the last year in my area kids have done Seussical, Cabaret, Mamma Mia, Fiddler on the Roof, and Spamalot (just looked and the latter has a cleaned up version available for kids).

So there's a problem with Peter Pan because of Red Indians. So let's leave out Tiger Lily? How does that help the cause of diversity and inclusion? Btw, on the Navajo Res, there's a high-school where the football team call themselves 'The Redskins'.

All this focus on historical attitudes to race and xenophobic memes and linguistics is nuts. And dangerous. Like cropping photos to eliminate rivals to Stalin or burning books.

If attitudes then were different from now, you've come a long way, baby. Celebrate it.

What’s the issue with Tiger Lily? She’s a Native American right? I don’t remember her being portrayed in a negative light?

@Thymeout

So there's a problem with Peter Pan because of Red Indians. So let's leave out Tiger Lily? How does that help the cause of diversity and inclusion? Btw, on the Navajo Res, there's a high-school where the football team call themselves 'The Redskins'.

All this focus on historical attitudes to race and xenophobic memes and linguistics is nuts. And dangerous. Like cropping photos to eliminate rivals to Stalin or burning books.

If attitudes then were different from now, you've come a long way, baby. Celebrate it.

But, you could make the arguement that Tiger Lily (and the rest of the "red Indians") aren't actually a representation of native american people. They aren't even a representation of (often racist) popular adult stereotypes of Indians from the time it was written. They represent a make-believe version of "red indians" that was popular for children at the time the book was written. Actual Native Americans lived in the Americas, not Neverland. Neverland is a magical land peopled with characters from children's imagination. So Tiger Lily is NOT a native american (like the people on the Navajo reservation you describe). She is a "Red Indian" - a character created in innocence from a children's game but unfortunately based on an adult stereotype that was rascist at its core. While I think on the one hand that lets Barry of the hook* for the way he portrayed them, I also dont think you can argue that having Tiger Lily as she was portrayed is "inclusive". I suppose it might be possible to include a more rounded version of real native americans, but it would make as much (or more) sense to cut them. Especially since red indians havent been a part of childrens play for a long time

*See what I did there!

You can't do The Sound of Music. That has tonnes of Nazis in

Oliver, the musical, could be ok? Although Nancy is a prostitute and gets murdered.

It's quite tricky isn't it?

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang xenophobic because of a German villain?
How about Die Hard? I love Alan Rickman as the most legendary German villain ever, Herr Hans Gruber.

@noraclavicle

Moondust001 are you kidding??!Wwhat an unpleasant thing to say. In no way, shape or form was FightingtheFoo ‘peddl[ing] the same hatred that led to their deaths.’ Give your head a wobble.

Back at you - xenophobia is the root of racism and bigotry, and leads to the kinds of events that were seen in Nazi Germany, and lots of countries since then too. It was more than "unpleasant" to say that xenophobia doesn't matter or that we should laugh at it - against Germans or anyone else. And it was downright disgusting what the poster afterwards said about the OP's grandparent. One can have a civilised discussion about opinions as to whether certain things constitute racism, sexism or whatever, but that does not justify accusing a nation of being Nazi's, and demeans the deaths of many Germans and others who fought against Hitler's national socialism. And it certainly did not justify the now removed extremely offensive comment about the OP's grandmother. If you think it does then you really need to be wobbling a lot more than your head.

Oh, and to add - there is no Navajo reservation. The US government was forced to give up that lark some time ago. It is the Navajo Nation, or more properly the Dine Nation. Only bilagaana would call it a reservation.

@itwa

You can't do The Sound of Music. That has tonnes of Nazis in

Oliver, the musical, could be ok? Although Nancy is a prostitute and gets murdered.

It's quite tricky isn't it?

Also, lets face it... Fagin.

But nobody minds if you have a go at the Nazis. They're pretty universally seen as bad guys.