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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so sick of selfish dog owners...The seal pup in London

769 replies

TickTockTick21 · 22/03/2021 20:25

It’s in the news that a seal pup has been mauled by an off lead dog. The seal pup now is likely to be put down.

Recent story of an off lead husky attacking lambs and sheep . A few months ago an off lead dog mauled a deer which had to be destroyed.

Numerous stories of swans being mauled by off lead dogs. On top of the numerous stories of children being attacked by off lead dogs.

Ffs why are people so bloody stupid and selfish! Keep your dog on a lead near wildlife!

I feel so sad for the seal pup . AIBU to think laws need to be tightened around off lead dogs?

I say this as a dog lover and owner .

OP posts:
Pomegranatespompom · 25/03/2021 11:46

@LST that’s a really disappointing attitude. Most people do care about things that ‘aren’t there problem’ to make life better for everyone.
Honestly really crap attitude.

suggestionsplease1 · 25/03/2021 12:53

I think it's an unrealistic proposition to expect an entirely sanitised, completely zero risk environment with dogs, or with any animals, or with any children, women or men to be fair.

Any child out there has the potential to strike and injure another child, yes to the point of hospitalisation if the scenario is particularly unfortunate or aggressive, but to take an instance of this and then use it as a rationale for why all children should stay on reins and at all times and no child should be allowed to run up to another or play together is clearly an absurdity.

There is clearly a balance to be had - if you are aware your child is likely to be aggressive of course you don't allow them to be in a situation where they could harm another until you have worked on the behaviours, together with experts as needed, and know how to manage the child yourself for future scenarios.

You don't issue an instruction that all children stay on reins all the time because you recognise the detriment to their exercise, activity levels, socialisation, stimulation and overall wellbeing, and you have a duty to your child in that respect. Dog owners of course have these same obligations to their dogs.

And you also recognise there can always be a first time - a horrifying moment that you didn't realise your child would be capable of. And you sincerely apologise to all affected and take the appropriate steps to try to ensure that doesn't happen again.

We live in a rich, complex world that we can't 100% sanitise, and that's partly what makes it rewarding and not sterile. There are horrifying and regrettable things happening every day and they won't always be preventable but need to be addressed if they occur.

I think the dog in question in this scenario should always be muzzled in public and I would tend to think if there is a second case it should be euthanised.

XenoBitch · 25/03/2021 13:11

I think the dog in question in this scenario should always be muzzled in public and I would tend to think if there is a second case it should be euthanised.

Why euthanised? That is very extreme. It mauled a seal, not a person. I guess I should have my greyhound put to sleep then as she has managed to kill 2 squirrels in her 10 years. And what about cats who kill birds and mice?

This story is sad, but dogs manage to kill wildlife all the time. They have a natural instinct, and sheep, rabbits, a baby seal... they are prey animals. If this dog had caught a rat, it would not be news worthy because rats are vermin and are not cute. A baby seal tugs at the heartstrings.

LST · 25/03/2021 13:12

[quote Pomegranatespompom]@LST that’s a really disappointing attitude. Most people do care about things that ‘aren’t there problem’ to make life better for everyone.
Honestly really crap attitude.[/quote]
But me putting my dog on a lead has zero impact on anyone else and never has.

Flaxmeadow · 25/03/2021 13:19

All dogs should be a lead in public places. Why is that a problem?

If a dog owner believes their dog has to be off leash for exercise then they should do this on private land. If they have no private land then they shouldn't have the dog in the first place

There are just too many injuries by dog attacks, even just fear of injury. Public safety comes before someones right to exercise their dog off leash

Lampzade · 25/03/2021 13:21

Dog owners ( of which I am one) need to stop making excuses and put their dogs on a lead
when in public spaces. End of

LST · 25/03/2021 13:24

@Flaxmeadow

All dogs should be a lead in public places. Why is that a problem?

If a dog owner believes their dog has to be off leash for exercise then they should do this on private land. If they have no private land then they shouldn't have the dog in the first place

There are just too many injuries by dog attacks, even just fear of injury. Public safety comes before someones right to exercise their dog off leash

Oh you're back! Because of all the reasons already given. HTH!
LST · 25/03/2021 13:25

@Lampzade

Dog owners ( of which I am one) need to stop making excuses and put their dogs on a lead when in public spaces. End of
Nah
GalaxyTruffles · 25/03/2021 13:26

I feel a bit sorry for her. She is being absolutely pulled apart on Twitter. I’m not defending the fact that she didn’t have her dog on the lead - I’m no lover of dogs anyway - but Jesus Christ it’s uncomfortable

DoubleTweenQueen · 25/03/2021 13:27

@Lampzade All public spaces? The vast acres of public amenity space? Entire national parks? I don't think so.

ferretface · 25/03/2021 13:30

Yes dogs should be on leads more. Mine only goes off the lead in open secluded public spaces where we can see what's there. Straight back on the lead when we see or pass someone, unless it's another off lead dog. If there's a family, someone without a dog, someone with a dog on lead etc, straight back on the lead. On lead walks are totally fine.

A lot of people saying the dog is dangerous or it should be put down etc don't really understand dogs. Chances are this dog that attacked the poor seal is totally fine around kids, other dogs etc but saw this seal as some exotic sort of prey species (or maybe attacked out of fear). Clearly, this dog cannot be trusted around seals, but doesn't mean it is automatically dangerous around kids, other dogs etc.

PandoraP · 25/03/2021 13:32

I haven’t seen Twitter but I think it’s good that she is being publicly shamed. Might make other dog owners think twice about letting their dogs run riot.

GalaxyTruffles · 25/03/2021 13:34

Trial by Twitter is never a good thing.

tuliprosedaffodil · 25/03/2021 13:37

I am so sick of off lead dogs in our local park (which is signposted all over that dogs must be on leads at all times!).

I had one bounding up to me leaping about half the field away from its owner the other week. I didn't want it to jump up, I stopped still, put on my best very cross mother voice and shouted NO, DOWN! The owner had the cheek to come rushing over and told me not to shout at her dog, how dare I, it was being friendly and I was being ridiculous!

Selfish entitled idiots.

DoubleTweenQueen · 25/03/2021 13:39

@tuliprosedaffodil Not all dog owners or their dogs are selfish entitled idiots. Some of us are quite nice and considerate :)

suggestionsplease1 · 25/03/2021 13:41

@XenoBitch

I think the dog in question in this scenario should always be muzzled in public and I would tend to think if there is a second case it should be euthanised.

Why euthanised? That is very extreme. It mauled a seal, not a person. I guess I should have my greyhound put to sleep then as she has managed to kill 2 squirrels in her 10 years. And what about cats who kill birds and mice?

This story is sad, but dogs manage to kill wildlife all the time. They have a natural instinct, and sheep, rabbits, a baby seal... they are prey animals. If this dog had caught a rat, it would not be news worthy because rats are vermin and are not cute. A baby seal tugs at the heartstrings.

I think because of the ferocity of the attack and the fact that it couldn't be brought back under control and managed quickly. The owner herself did not appear to be confident to manage her dog, which is concerning. I'm a bit confused as to whether it injured humans in redirected aggression or if was the seal that bit the humans, but if the dog did that would be another major problem for me.

The fact that it felt confident to attack a sizeable and stationary animal, many times larger than itself is another very disturbing feature of the aggression to my mind. It makes me think the dog might be more capable of unusual and unpredictable aggression, rather than more typically seen prey drive for smaller animals like squirrels, which is also followed through on by being triggered by them running away.

But if it is always muzzled in public then presumably this sort of situation won't arise again, in which case euthanasia not necessary.

GalaxyTruffles · 25/03/2021 13:45

I do feel like if it was my dog I wouldn’t be able to look at it the same way. I’d never be able to relax again.

alreadytaken · 25/03/2021 14:04

Dog not on a lead when she knew the seal was there, dog bit a man trying to get it off the seal. She wont be prosecuted because she's in the legal profession - but she was reckless so she should have been prosecuted.

tuliprosedaffodil · 25/03/2021 14:05

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@tuliprosedaffodil Not all dog owners or their dogs are selfish entitled idiots. Some of us are quite nice and considerate :)[/quote]
I know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean you all.

I meant the selfish entitled ones Wink

Incidentally I don't mind dogs. I love seeing them trotting about happily. But they need to be under control and not being a pain in the arse!

DoubleTweenQueen · 25/03/2021 14:05

I don't think there will be any action taken against this dog's owner? I would have thought it would be a good idea to stipulate it should be muzzled and on a lead in future, but I'm not sure if the authorities can do that? If it were my dog, I would certainly be ensuring this.

DoubleTweenQueen · 25/03/2021 14:12

I absolutely agree that she should be prosecuted. To do nothing is ridiculous.

@tuliprosedaffodil That's a relief! Some owners are crap - I've had it myself. At the beach with a beach tent and picnic, and some random animal just barges in and gets sand everywhere Hoping to nick some food, and the owner not being at all bothered. Also young child making a lovely sandcastle when large dog runs over and pisses all over it. Again, owner doesn't give a damn! It is generally awful, but many owners are not like this - sadly it is generally the selfish entitled dicks that get noticed and give everyone a bad name. Bit like cyclists, van and Audi drivers :)

LibertyMole · 25/03/2021 14:21

The U.K. is never going to introduce a law saying that dogs must always be on a lead in public places.

Meanwhile, there are issues we could do something about. I was in a country park at the weekend. There was a group of men with some form of bull terriers with their ears cut back (illegal) training their dogs to jump up and clamp on to some kind of baton type things, with their young children with them. There were four, maybe five dogs. They were near to a children’s play area.

Not many people get mauled by dogs, but those dogs are likely candidates, and the children in their homes the likely victims.

The problem is not squirrel chasing westies with less than perfect recall who have a tiny chance of harming anyone. The risk is probably similar to a child cycling in to you by accident, or being hit on the head by a stray football, or tripping over a tree root or on some wet leaves, or being hit in the eye by a kite, or a hundred other incidents that increase other people’s enjoyment and are of very low risk to others.

AramintaLee · 25/03/2021 14:33

I still keep thinking about this and how terrified that poor seal must have been.

Thing is, the owner released a statement saying although in hindsight she wishes her dog had been on a lead, she saw no need at the time... but presumably she walks the dog daily and that's a usual route for her... the seal being there was common knowledge... if it had been me, just knowing a seal was frequently chilling in that area would make me put the lead on my dog.

ferretface · 25/03/2021 14:33

@suggestionsplease1 obviously it depends on this dog's other patterns of behaviour but muzzling it in case it ever encounters another seal seems overkill - chances are this dog has been totally fine with other dogs, children etc and has had a bad reaction to a very unusual stimulus (which has ended tragically for the poor seal). Risk management has to be proportionate to the chance of the risk occuring. The dog is a clear attack risk to seals and possibly similar looking creatures (livestock?) and therefore it's very proportionate to keep it on the lead and closely managed when in situations where they might be encountered, but it is maybe not so proportionate to muzzle as well as leash it when in its day to day all it will encounter are well known stimuli that don't provoke a reaction.

There have been a really sad series of dog attacks on lambs on a farm near us. This is unfortunately common in rural areas because a lot of people seem not to understand that their dog is at heart a predatory animal. But equally it doesn't mean that those dogs present much risk to other dogs, children, people etc, even though they are very dangerous to livestock as evidenced by the number of dead lambs.

Shamoo · 25/03/2021 14:44

My dog is generally the softest happiest thing in the world. But her recall is only 90% and occasionally she can be a pain (obsessed by food for example). Therefore I always have her on a lead in public. It’s not rocket science. If you cannot 100% guarantee your dog’s recall then your dog needs to be on a lead at all times in public. End of discussion. The poor seal is dead because of the lady - it is entirely her fault. And she deserves the consequences of that.

The number of dogs off lead who come up and sniff at my dog, follow her, and annoy her is unacceptable - the owners either don’t bother to get them to come away or aren’t able to. It blows my mind how entitled they are.