To wonder why school meals include a pudding every day

[LAgeDeRaisin]

My DC aren't at school yet, but I had a look at our local primary school website today to read a bit about it. On the lunch section there is informarion about packed lunches including requests not sending in crisps/ sweets and cakes. Suggestions for lunches were included. All seemed pretty normal.

I've also had a look at the school dinner menu and there is a pudding every single day- sponge and custard, rice pudding, iced biscuits, brownies, etc.

In our house we will make a home made pudding at the weekend as a treat or if we have guests/it's an occasion, but meals through the week don't come with pudding.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn't be giving children pudding every day (especially if packed lunch boxes forbid it)? Could they not give some of their suggested sweet treats instead like malt loaf, fruit, yoghurt, etc?

What's the point in having a policy about not eating rubbish if you're handing out daily brownies?

Fully prepared to be called a bore.

Ambrosia tinned custard. Open tin pour into jug, microwave. Or eat it straight out of the tin, cold.

Yanbu. When my daughter started school she’d never really had “pudding” unless birthday or something. Within weeks she was in tears over dinner at home because we didn’t have a pudding for her. Turned out school had told her that good children who eat well get given pudding. They were using puddings as a bribe to get the fussy kids to eat fast, and didn’t care about the message this gave to the kids.

The school menu was pretty awful, full of chips and junk food, but if a parent put a biscuit in a packed lunch box the child would be told off and the biscuit confiscated. Even though the school dinner menu sometimes had a biscuit on it as the ‘pudding.’

They’re mad. 🤷‍♀️

Nothing wrong with Bird's Custard.

Tinned custard is a bit too sweet for me, prefer my own made with Bird's custard powder. Each to their own though. A good, creamy, thick custard is lovely with baked apple.

This thread is making me hungry.

Seems to me, that many schools these days, are more like nutrition centres, than teaching establishments.

I had school dinners my whole school life, when they were big portions and not all about healthy eating. We didn't have puddings at home, except occasionally after Sunday dinner. Having then at school didn't make me expect them at home. They were two different places with different meals.
I don't know why parents find it so hard to explain that now?

Also children have strong ideas of fairness, so however healthy the sponge cake might be, they'll still think it's wrong that they can't have a biscuit in their packed lunch, yet their friend can choose sponge and custard.

I supervise 3 year groups eat. One is year 2 who are entitled to free school meals. Most parents sign their children up, 3/4 of them eat anything that is put in front of them.

The remaining 1/4 have very limited tastes and require lots of persuasion to eat any of the main course and may just be persuaded to eat the pudding. All puddings are low in added sugar and rely on fruit for sweetness. Most of the children will turn down yoghurt, especially I'f they have lumps. Most of the children will turn down fruit, they are offered it at break and we have to compost lots of it.

If they don't eat adequately at lunch they flag during afternoon lessons and behaviour suffers.

The limited eaters vary in socio economic background but do include children that really need a good meal on a regular basis.

A daily low added sugar pudding that gets them to eat something is a good thing.

Oh and school meal portions are small and enough if you eat all of it. Home packed lunches usually contain far more food, regardless of quality.

sans chemicals

I don’t know what’s more hilarious - the random insertion of French words in an otherwise English sentence, or the fact that someone doesn’t know the whole world is made of “chemicals”, yes, even Madagascan vanilla pods

YABU puddings are tradition

If the meals are otherwise healthy I have zero issue with there being a reasonably sized sweet each time.

I'd be pissed about the lunchbox directive and tell them to shove it.

I’m head of 2 schools. I wouldn’t dream of telling families what they can/cannot pack for their children. At my schools, school meals include a low sugar small pudding or daily fruit and yoghurt options.

with proper knives and forks and water

Yes, because in the state sector we use pretend knives, forks and water what on earth are proper knives, forks and water?

@SmokedDuck

If the meals are otherwise healthy I have zero issue with there being a reasonably sized sweet each time.

I'd be pissed about the lunchbox directive and tell them to shove it.

So would I SmokedDuck. It's an outrage.

In my children’s school they have pudding everyday. They haven’t had any veg/salad since the beginning of covid. They have no policy restricting sugar. The idea they have to regulate this stuff simply isn’t true.

the portions are tiny (cake literally about an inch and a half cube) and often sneakily low sugar and full of hidden veg. Eg the brownies have beetroot in and there’s another one with corgette in it

WHAT!?!

The bstards! The unspeakable bstards!!!

@Flipflops85

with proper knives and forks and water

Yes, because in the state sector we use pretend knives, forks and water what on earth are proper knives, forks and water?

In our state school we just sharpen twigs and sticks to eat with, and then send the children off to drink from the nearest puddle.

None of those fancy "proper knives and forks and water" here.

@FishWithoutABike

In my children’s school they have pudding everyday. They haven’t had any veg/salad since the beginning of covid. They have no policy restricting sugar. The idea they have to regulate this stuff simply isn’t true.

Not true at your children’s school.

True in the three primary schools I’ve worked and the one my DC went to.

@ineedaholidaynow

I wonder how much the school lunches cost in France and how much time they have to eat their lunch. I also can't see many children in this country eating some of those meals on offer.

Most schools in this country have to have at least 2 sittings as they don't have a big enough hall to cater for everyone. They don't have very long breaks so it is case of getting as much food in them as quickly as possible and then out of the door to make space for the next group. Soup would not be a good choice for that! Not all schools have kitchens so their meals will be brought in, which doesn't always help with the quality/choice on offer.

The average cost spent on food for a school meal in England is about 80p, the rest of the cost to the parents is catering staff costs and overheads.

This meal can be the only substantial meal for a number of children, hence the controversy over free school meals in holidays.

In France how much the parents pay depends on income.Most pay about $3, it tops out at $7, and some pay less than a dollar.

@ineedaholidaynow

I wonder how much the school lunches cost in France and how much time they have to eat their lunch. I also can't see many children in this country eating some of those meals on offer.

Most schools in this country have to have at least 2 sittings as they don't have a big enough hall to cater for everyone. They don't have very long breaks so it is case of getting as much food in them as quickly as possible and then out of the door to make space for the next group. Soup would not be a good choice for that! Not all schools have kitchens so their meals will be brought in, which doesn't always help with the quality/choice on offer.

The average cost spent on food for a school meal in England is about 80p, the rest of the cost to the parents is catering staff costs and overheads.

This meal can be the only substantial meal for a number of children, hence the controversy over free school meals in holidays.

Lunch is between 90 minutes and two hours. French law is that the meal itself (sitting and eating) has to last 30 minutes, not including any waiting times. The kids are expected to spend time afterwards relaxing/socialising. Standard French lunch is 12-2pm, although some places will vary.

It's also French law that every school meal has to include a main dish, a side, a dairy product, and either an entree or a pudding. Every meal has to be healthy and nutritious, and balanced. The only beverage served is water. Water and bread are freely available, but most kids only take one slice of bread. Salt and sauces form part of the dish, so access to those is limited.

I also can't see many children in this country eating some of those meals on offer. Sadly, that speaks volumes about British food culture. British children don't seem to be *raised to eat what the French would consider "normal" meals, or food. The French make it a priority to educate children to eat healthy food, because that's part of their culture. School meals are worked out and passed to a dietician, who may tweak the menu to make sure it's healthy and balanced. I'm not convinced that the average UK school meal would even pass the rules in France, or be legal to serve up. Parents are expected to consult the school menus, and provide something for dinner in the evening that balances that.

The meals are funded by the local municipality, because food education is such a core part of French culture. Any family unable to pay can apply for funding. It's illegal for any school to refuse to provide a child's lunch based on family circumstances.
Children are taught to eat well, and to eat healthy food. In case of allergies, or specific diet, the parents/guardians are expected to consult with the school, and a specific menu may be arranged. Families are welcome to provide a packed lunch, but most families don't.

The laws I noted are listed here: www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F24569

I've fished out a couple of menus. One is a professional lyceeschool in Limoges. www.lyc-lemasjambost-limoges.ac-limoges.fr/IMG/pdf/2021.03.22_au_26.pdf

The other is a college on the outskirts of Rouen: emileverhaeren.arsene76.fr/vie-du-college/restauration-/menus/menus-du-08-mars-2021-au-09-avril-2021-11610.htm

Like lots of other aspects of UK food and drink culture, there are some things that really stick out to a French. Including the alcohol culture in the UK: in France, the default is that it's illegal to present oneself in public in a manifestly drunk state. It's up to the mayor of each commune to decide, but the default is that it's not legal. Alcohol is supposed to be taken with food, and it's a sign of mental illness to drink alcohol without food. SO all those drunk football supporters who go brawling when they've had a few? They've broken French laws by going to the bar and getting themselves obviously drunk, and then compounding that with anti-social behaviour.

All of that combined makes for a very different culture, just in terms of food and drink.

My health visitor told me to give 'pudding' even if it was just yogurt as a way to get extra calories in, we do have some kind of dessert after our main meal and we are all a normal healthy size.
I send packed lunch with a dessert item too. That way I can make sure there is a healthy balance through the day.
It would piss me right off if school told me what to put in a lunch box! I get that some parents will just fill it with crap but unless there was concern about the child's health, I don't see why it's anyone's business what you decide to feed your child

I don’t think for me it would be about the sugar v non sugar in the school cakes.

It would be the absurdity and unfairness of telling my child they can have the mini roll I sent in their lunchbox while sat next to a friend who is eating sponge and custard.

They can’t have*

@LucilleTheVampireBat

A piece of home baking. Wtf does that mean 🤣 No sponge and custard for me Miss Smith, I'd much rather have a piece of home baking.

I wondered that too!

Puddings have been factored in as a standard part of school dinners for decades, and for the majority of time, there was no issue with childhood obesity. School puddings in themselves are not an issue.

I've managed over 20 years of school dinners and puddings and have have never established a habit of pudding after meals at home.

Schools often have restrictions on lunchbox contents because too many parents will just load a child with empty calories and no nutrition and blanket bans are easier than trying to expect people to cope with nuance. There is also the issue of allergies incase of items containing allergens such as nuts, again managed within the school's supplier.

Children need carbs for energy to run around and grow, their nutritional needs are different to adults trying to maintain weight. While yoghurts contain some calcium from dairy, they are either sweetned with sugar or artificial sweetners and seem to be nutritionally overrated by people who get twitchy about puddings. They're pretty comparable to custard really!

I just wish that portions took the age group of the children into account. Expecting y5/6 to get through on the same portion as children half their age is pretty daft.