To wonder why school meals include a pudding every day

[LAgeDeRaisin]

My DC aren't at school yet, but I had a look at our local primary school website today to read a bit about it. On the lunch section there is informarion about packed lunches including requests not sending in crisps/ sweets and cakes. Suggestions for lunches were included. All seemed pretty normal.

I've also had a look at the school dinner menu and there is a pudding every single day- sponge and custard, rice pudding, iced biscuits, brownies, etc.

In our house we will make a home made pudding at the weekend as a treat or if we have guests/it's an occasion, but meals through the week don't come with pudding.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn't be giving children pudding every day (especially if packed lunch boxes forbid it)? Could they not give some of their suggested sweet treats instead like malt loaf, fruit, yoghurt, etc?

What's the point in having a policy about not eating rubbish if you're handing out daily brownies?

Fully prepared to be called a bore.

Lunchtime always used to be about teaching children about having a sit down meal. A main meal and a pudding, eaten nicely, in the right order.

Now it’s just ramming food in 15 minutes to not miss your 10 minutes of break time.

Packed lunches were always open to abuse with everyone knowing someone that only ever had cake or crisps.

We have puddings after every evening meal. Sometimes on the healthy side, mostly not if I’m honest.
Meal times are one of the few moments each day that we are together as a family and I’d like it to be enjoyable. As long as you are sensible it doesn’t have to mean rotten teeth and overweight kids.

My DC very often don’t opt for the pudding at school because they don’t like it, don’t have time or are full from the main meal. My eldest in particular only has pudding maybe once a week at school.

The ‘pudding’ at my school is yoghurt and fruit at least 3x per week. I’ve yet to work in a school with daily brownies

The school dinner is a main (and often only) meal for a huge number of children across the country. I’m not suggesting pudding is 100% necessary after every meal, but for children with limited food options, it’s nice that they get variety as part of a balanced menu. It’s lovely that you can afford to provide your children with treats at weekends, but not all children get this luxury. Some children are absolutely ravenous by Monday.

All schools I’ve worked in allow home baking, and biscuit based snacks in a packed lunch box - they wouldn’t allow a Mars bar for example, but I think that’s an inappropriate snack for a child anyway.

Because they’re yummy. They could have something else. For some children it will be their only meal of the day.

I don't mean this unkindly but when I read threads like this OP my first reaction is "my God is this seriously all you have to worry about"?
If your children get sufficient excercise and eat a varied decent diet at home I don't understand the issue.
Sugar (in good proportion) is not a bad thing, puddings/deserts don't need (& often won't be in school dinners) to be high in sugar.
I think the idea of sitting down to a meal, learning table manners, social interactions etc with their peers are equally important. Of course this should start at home, but too often doesn't, many homes sadly these days don't possess a dining table.
Think you're com lately overthinking this to be honest!

We used to have soup or fruit with a main course but since Covid it's been soup and a main course.

Not had a proper pudding in quite a few years now.

My opinion is that it's the cheapest possible way to get calories into them, thanks to the old nutritional standards that saw them having to melt lard into the gravy in the 1970s if the calorie count of the entire meal was a bit low. And people came to expect it.

It always annoyed me vaguely that before starting school, my kids were happy with a fromage frais and a couple of strawberries/grapes/etc along with their lunch (didn't care what order they ate things in, the important thing was that they ate a wide range of foods) and perhaps something bigger on Saturday or Sunday, but then began expecting a pudding with every single thing they ate. Whilst refusing to eat (steamed, poached, grilled, baked) fish and potato wedges because they took 'fish is bad for you and makes you fat' and 'Potatoes make you fat' from the lessons on eating healthily, where the teaching material singled out fish and chips as being really bad for you.

Oh, and thanks to the branding the cereal companies did about 'healthy eating' on posters in the dinner hall, they suddenly wanted the sweetest cereals in the world, rather than a piece of toast or some porridge.

*completely
Apologies for typo

@cathcath2

I think anyone suggesting soup starters should have to come and supervise a class of 5-year-olds eating them!

This!

Although, can they also supervise the reception children carrying their trays with soup and a plate of food to their tables as well please? And obviously then they can do the inevitable cleaning up and and finding spare clothes for those children covered in soup.

@doubleshotespresso

I don't mean this unkindly but when I read threads like this OP my first reaction is "my God is this seriously all you have to worry about"? If your children get sufficient excercise and eat a varied decent diet at home I don't understand the issue. Sugar (in good proportion) is not a bad thing, puddings/deserts don't need (& often won't be in school dinners) to be high in sugar. I think the idea of sitting down to a meal, learning table manners, social interactions etc with their peers are equally important. Of course this should start at home, but too often doesn't, many homes sadly these days don't possess a dining table. Think you're com lately overthinking this to be honest!

^^ This. You only have pudding once a week OP? Eating healthily doesn't have to be quite so restrictive. Denying children nice things to eat before they are even school age can lead to issues with food. When my DC were little yoghurt or fruit and custard counted as pudding. School meals are tiny.

:D If you don't like your children eating puddings, train them not to eat them ;)

I had a similar conversation with friends whose kids are registered at a local school. UK school lunches are quite stodgy, and comparing notes of those and French ones was an eye-opener for them.

I found a link to a standard French school lunch for your browsing pleasure. If the dietician thinks there's too much sugar in the lunches planned for any particular week, they'll replace one of those puddings with a bit of fruit. The big difference between the menu linked and the ones offered in some other areas is that some other areas try to offer totally local and organic food. They put the UK school lunches to shame. See here: www.mindbodygreen.com/0-14845/what-french-kids-eat-for-school-lunch-it-puts-americans-to-shame.html

@CuthbertDibbleandGrubb

Probably for historic reasons as in wartime it was to fill children up whose meals were limited otherwise. Easy to make I expect.

I wonder what Jamie Oliver's views are on this?

Yes. Needs have changed though.

Pudding was one of the best bits about school.

It has taken us pretty much all of primary school to convince DD she doesn’t need pudding after every meal.

Pudding doesn't have to mean cake, and school cakes are in nowhere near the same league as homemade/shop bought ones.

I have "pudding" after most meals - anything from yoghurt and fruit, to cheese and crackers, to some cake or chocolate. It doesn't have to be something you make a big deal out of.

We had hot pudding s every day when I was at school (1970s) and there was hardly any overweight kids.
You lot who are banging on about fruit and yogurt you do realise there is almost certainly more sugar in those that the veggie based sponge puddings and the rice puddings?
And please try to remember OP it’s not all about your kids. For a lot of kids in this Country school dinner is their main (or only) meal of the day.

Boph: "When my DC were little yoghurt or fruit and custard counted as pudding." Is that not normal? We have fruit or yoghurt, or a tiny square of chocolate, depending on mood. I make jams, so that when we have yoghurt, I can add a coffee spoon of jam to that, and then grate a tiny bit of dark chocolate over the pot (usually a ramekin). Otherwise, a piece of fruit, or just *something sweet. Husband made a lovely bread and butter pudding some weeks ago, but that was because we didn't finish our loaf that week.

[quote LAgeDeRaisin]@dementedpixie yes, I know they're not forced to eat it. But isn't it odd to say packed lunch can't or shouldn't include sugary treats, but offer sugary baking/puddings themselves?[/quote]
You need to get the recipe from a school cook!

Our one in school I work in has a child in school next door with terribly tight lunch box policy.

The parents were making the same puddings. Same recipe and same cake/brownies and biscuits.

Was quite a moment when the head tried to argue how bad it was for kids health and education, irresponsible parenting etc. She couldn't answer why hot school lunch kids were being allowed to be damaged by the same recipe

There was more to it in that the HT in general was a bit of a Miss Trunchball character.

I can see why the rules exist to stop parents who just send in meal deals, cheap crap etc and that is bad for children's health.

But I think a better way to deal with it needs looking into rather than dictating to the parents who do have the ability to provide a balanced lunch.

Because in all my years of experience in various schools the families who these rules are written for still send their kids with the crap the policies are meant to avoid. The problem is bigger than what's in a child's lunchbox.

I think anyone suggesting soup starters should have to come and supervise a class of 5-year-olds eating them!

100% this. It would be carnage.

I and husband always cooked a good meal for ourselves and our son every evening: meat poultry, occasionally fish, potatoes and at least two veg as well as pasta dishes, and we had pudding albeit not a big one. I thought everyone did! Jam sponge, apple crumble, pancake, fresh fruit salad, etc.

[quote LAgeDeRaisin]@FamilyOfAliens Sponge pudding and custard, and rice pudding are hot though- so it must be possible to have 2 hot courses. I don't see the difference?[/quote]
At the school I worked in the pudding was served in its own compartment on the divided plate, which also had the main course. So it definitely wasn’t hot by the time it was eaten! But the point is it was one trip to the serving point.

With soup first, you would need children to go up and be served their bowl of soup (which many children, especially the younger ones, wouldn’t be able to carry without spilling) and then go up again for their main course.

Or you’d have to have children sitting down and being served their soup by an adult, which would need higher staffing as the adults are normally floating around the room helping children cut their food, open their packed lunch things, etc.

And if the soup was meant for everyone, you’d have to factor in allergies and dietary and religious needs, unless you offered two or three different soups every day.

By all means suggest it, but I think you’d be surprised how complicated serving school lunches to primary children can be!

It’s not like going to a restaurant.

@MissyB1

We had hot pudding s every day when I was at school (1970s) and there was hardly any overweight kids. You lot who are banging on about fruit and yogurt you do realise there is almost certainly more sugar in those that the veggie based sponge puddings and the rice puddings? And please try to remember OP it’s not all about your kids. For a lot of kids in this Country school dinner is their main (or only) meal of the day.

Missy. The yoghurt is home made. The jam I put in it (using a coffee spoon) is also home made.

Have a look at the French menus. They're a world apart from the British ones.

@MissyB1

We had hot pudding s every day when I was at school (1970s) and there was hardly any overweight kids. You lot who are banging on about fruit and yogurt you do realise there is almost certainly more sugar in those that the veggie based sponge puddings and the rice puddings? And please try to remember OP it’s not all about your kids. For a lot of kids in this Country school dinner is their main (or only) meal of the day.

I remember my caramel shortcake and custard and a wee glass bowl of jelly with a blob of cream on the top

Every pudding on our menu contains fruit or vegetable. Often hidden. And the portion is tiny.

The pack lunch policy says no chocolates, sweets or fizzy drinks. Cakes and chocolate biscuits are discouraged but allowed.

I'm sure the FSM kids are sick of soup from the food bank parcels.

No crisps!! That's insane! I send my daughter in with a packed lunch. I don't like the "convenience" meals that are provided i.e fish finger & chips. Pizza. Etc!

MmeLaraque, you're my hero (or heroine), a girl after my own heart!

Ooh I forgot to mention baked apple, yum.

However all that was at home. School dinners are often not that good, when he was older son took packed lunch. When I was at school the dinners were virtually inedible as well as looking and smelling terrible!