Surely a vaccination certificate for international travel should be implemented as soon as possible?

[wintertime6]

I don't understand why there is a debate on this? Surely it should be implemented as soon as possible (taking into consideration the availability of vaccines for all those who want to travel). The government need to step up and make some tough decisions and make sure that the fabulous work down with our vaccination programme isn't undone. It's done for yellow fever and that's a vaccine people have to pay for. If there's a valid reason people can't have the vaccine they can get an exemption certificate. And I've never heard anyone complaining about it?

I don't know. Given that I have no idea when I, my husband or children will be vaccinated, I'd rather a vaccine cert didn't become a condition for travelling abroad.

Not from this country and the last time I visited my home country was 2018. The last time I saw my father was in 2017. We didn't meet in 2018 because of strained family relationships. In 2019 we had just relocated to a new town and husband had a new job so decided against going back home. Then Covid happened. Now my father is ill with memory problems. We were going to go this summer to see him and to help. If we can't who knows if I'll ever see him again or if he'll recognise me.

It's not just for holidays.

But see here's the thing about sharing vaccines (to the UK public that are so outraged about doing) - like fuck do I want you in my country just because you've been vaccinated.

Until I have too you're potentially still a danger to me.

The vaccine stops you from getting seriously ill. It doesn't prevent you from spreading it.

The government are already reviewing covid status certification. The consultation ends on 29th March.

They've also already pushed through a digital ID, because it's their plan to have everyone ID via modern tech. When it's finalised it will be bought in to law.

@boredbuttercup

Because we haven't vaccinated everyone yet

This, and because the priority list for vaccination is almost exclusively age based. Therefore if you only allow the vaccinated to travel before everyone has the opportunity to be vaccinated you are essentially implementing indirect age discrimination. It's one thing to consider it once all have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. But until then it is entirely unfair and in fact discriminatory.

The proposed vaccine passports i've seen have included a negative test, if not yet vaccinated.

However, as most British people holiday in europe and given the decline in relations, i doubt we will be included in their schemes anytime soon.

@BootsScootsAndToots

But see here's the thing about sharing vaccines (to the UK public that are so outraged about doing) - like fuck do I want you in my country just because you've been vaccinated.

Until I have too you're potentially still a danger to me.

The vaccine stops you from getting seriously ill. It doesn't prevent you from spreading it.

And once again for the people at the back...

Evidence was not originally collected on whether the various vaccines prevented asymptomatic infection and/or transmission.

That never meant that they definitely don’t. It was always expected that they would prevent infection and transmission to some extent, and indeed the evidence is now belatedly coming in to prove it.

UK wise, Vaccines are only just getting to over 50s, so a lot of the working population unvaccinated. Opening up travel can put those under 50s at risk.

Most of Europe not in as good a position, so I think risking most of Europes working age at this stage is too soon.

Travelling abroad at the moment is just bonkers. It's coming up to summer and the UK is nice in the summer. It's Oct and Nov I'm keener to get away. If there are new variants that are immune to vaccines the travel industry will be quiet for a while. I think this will have fairly long term implications on overseas travel. It was all getting silly as far as climate change goes anyway

@boredbuttercup

“ It's one thing to consider it once all have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. But until then it is entirely unfair and in fact discriminatory.”

It’s still unfair and discriminatory then. People who have recovered from infection are also immune. They’re not a risk either. Why should only vaccine induced immunity count?

@bumbleymummy

Because choosing not to have a vaccine isn't a protected characteristic under the equality act, but age is. I'm talking the legal definition of discrimination here.

The discussion about vaccine passports in parliament last Monday highlighted that some ethnic groups are less likely to get the vaccine. So I think discrimination applies there. An immune person is not a risk to others. Why should they have to be vaccinated?

Travelling abroad at the moment is just bonkers

My family are 8 time zones away. Parents both had big surgeries in last year. I didn't want to have to make a decision about attending the funeral based on whether I could stomach 2 week quarantine each way or claim a legal & 'reasonable excuse' for travel. I don't care about hols in Greece but I would quite like not being banned from seeing my elderly relatives and dozens of cousins, aunts, etc.

@bumbleymummy

The discussion about vaccine passports in parliament last Monday highlighted that some ethnic groups are less likely to get the vaccine. So I think discrimination applies there. An immune person is not a risk to others. Why should they have to be vaccinated?

What is an immune person?

@May17th
In this context, I was referring to someone who is immune after recovering from infection.

@lljkk

Travelling abroad at the moment is just bonkers

My family are 8 time zones away. Parents both had big surgeries in last year. I didn't want to have to make a decision about attending the funeral based on whether I could stomach 2 week quarantine each way or claim a legal & 'reasonable excuse' for travel. I don't care about hols in Greece but I would quite like not being banned from seeing my elderly relatives and dozens of cousins, aunts, etc.

I get this is so frustrating.

The 2 weeks quarantine each way makes it difficult for people who want to travel. But I don't expect countries who've managed to control Covid to drop their quarantine rules, so I wouldn't expect our government to either.

The unfortunate reality of it is that even with the vaccine they suspect there is a approx 30+ % chance that you can still spread Covid. So until all countries have vaccinated the majority of their population travel can't safely happen without quarantine.

If anyone's parents or relatives are known to be terminally ill or at risk of death it is still possible to get permission to travel. A friends father has been given up to 6 months and they have given them their vaccinations early so that if they need to go they are already vaccinated and ready to travel, they will receive help organising flights also.

Without a reasonable excuse before next year Imo it is reckless to allow foreign travel even with a vaccine.

I didn’t realise about permission to travel
Kids need to see their dad
And literally just learnt we can apply
I’m so relieved
Next , vaccine

Thisis, ask about priority for vaccine if you have an urgent need to travel.

Thanks , I’ll definitely try
I didn’t even realise I could ask or request it

[quote MacDuffsMuff]@Sidney no room to holiday in this country? Are you not in the UK? There's plenty of room to holiday here if you wish to do so. Unless you're trying to make some other point?[/quote]
You ve obviously not been in Cornwall @ july august or used the A303/M5/A30.

The UK has nothing like the room for everyone to holiday nor the accommodation, let alone our weather.

Cornwall does not have the space for the entire British population to holiday, nor do the central towns of the Lake District. Even in a normal year I would class them as full. But there are many other places in the UK.

Gosh this is depressing.

If vaccinations and testing do not result in FOM to other countries then we're never ever going to be allowed out of the country, (unless we come under one of the exemptions which tend to benefit the wealthy).

This virus is going nowhere.

YABU

This is way down the list of priorities at the moment. It will take some time to create something which is secure and not easily forged for a start.

Also, international travel for the majority is big something I think we should jump into right now. I think we need freedom of movement and more normality within the UK before adding in foreign travel. And we need to look at what is going on abroad, as well as the need to be vigilant for new strains. Part of that issue is that not all countries have as good genomic analysis of covid-19 as the UK and so are slow to pick up new variants within their countries. This means we could sleep walk into importing a new variant, one (or more of which) may escape the vaccines we have. Lots of people from the uk travelling abroad right now would be extreme folly in my opinion. We should also be sharing or expertise on gene analysis with other countries- it really is in our best interests.

Epidemiologically speaking, travel bans that are based on the traffic light system are a farce and will not prevent importation and spread of new cases/new variants. It works on historical (even if recent data), which quickly becomes outdated, and government takes too long to put restrictions in place when problems arise. It also does nothing to stop people entering from or going to a high risk zone, just means they have to take a circuitous route to do so.

The only travel restrictions that work are complete ones that have exceptions for essential workers (e.g. lorry drivers) or in compassionate grounds. Those who must travel for work purposes are screened regularly. Those travelling on compassionate grounds must be quarantined (properly, monitored and enforced- not the unregulated, unmonitored pretence we’ve had before because data shows most people who were supposed to quarantine either did not bother or did not do it properly).

Foreign travel this summer should not be counted upon. It’s not essential for the majority. Those who have good reason can go abroad but holidays abroad are not essential snd mass holidaying abroad could threaten the progress we have made so far.

@lifeturnsonadime

Gosh this is depressing.

If vaccinations and testing do not result in FOM to other countries then we're never ever going to be allowed out of the country, (unless we come under one of the exemptions which tend to benefit the wealthy).

This virus is going nowhere.

Once vaccination is widespread enough throughout the world, as is genomic analysis to allow rapid identification of new variants (which may escape the vaccines we have), we will be able to travel. We aren’t there yet and so mass foreign travel is not a good idea at the moment.

I’d rather have free movement within the UK, our children back at school etc than foreign holidays this summer with intermittent restrictions ongoing.

Once vaccination is widespread enough throughout the world, as is genomic analysis to allow rapid identification of new variants (which may escape the vaccines we have), we will be able to travel. We aren’t there yet and so mass foreign travel is not a good idea at the moment.

That requires a coordinated approach to vaccinations which isn't happening.

it also does not prevent the emergence of new variants.

By the time this is achieved there will be no airline / travel industry to enable travel.

@lifeturnsonadime exactly! This is what’s so irrational about our approach.

I wonder if the people saying ‘it’ll all be ok, we just have to vaccinate the whole world!’ have any idea whatsoever what life is like for people in developing countries. People in countries in Africa and much of Asia are not expecting to be vaccinated any time soon. It could be years for them.

We need a fairer approach for them and a more rational approach to our borders.