About this bad, false reference

[majesticallyawkward]

I'm so angry. I had a call about a job, all great and they were ready to offer it to me until a previous manager gave them a fucking shit reference that is all lies and it's now not going ahead.

The manager giving the reference wasnt my line a manger, but my actual previous line manager is on annual leave so stepped in.
It's all lies, inaccurate and completely malicious. I have many others that contradict it.

Called acas and because my contract with them doesn't state im entitled to a detailed reference I have no options other than complaining to the hr dept or civil court. Neither are particularly good options- hr are shit and won't investigate anything (previous experience) and civil court could be difficult because she never puts anything in writing (because she knows she's wrong and won't leave a trail).

It's not just this job, that I really wanted! But my reputation is now damaged.

I don't know what to do, this person bullied me out of a job and is now wrecking my reputation.

Although you can give someone a bad reference it has to be factual.
I would consult a solicitor, they should be able to advise as to what legal recourse you have. If there are actual lies there that you can disprove you may be able to sue for lost earning etc. However, if the reference was verbal it might be hard to prove unless your potential new employer will confirm what was said

That's my sticking point. She never puts anything in writing so it's all verbal, it'd be a big ask for the potential employer to put it in writing but maybe the recruiter would confirm it in an email.

It's all lies, nothing to back up her claims at all. I had 1:1s that contradict it, other references that contradict it... there is no basis for this other than malicious intent.

She denied me a promotion because I was pregnant, belittled me in front of colleagues, sent awful text messages swearing at me, blocked any development, ignored me for a year and is generally the most unprofessional person I've ever met. But is able to do this to me with no recourse.

It's so frustrating, I feel so powerless and hopeless. It's a small industry and everyone talks, it won't take long for this to get out.

As PP said, if they have told lies you should consult a solicitor.

With things that can be established as fact this will be easy to prove. (Things like number of sick days, dates when starting and leaving job.)

There are things that are semi-factual, like your duties - often our job description doesn't go into enough detail and we usually do things that are not on the official job description. "Would you re-employ them?" is a classic. They could say no for any number of reasons, like there is a company policy not to re-employ ex-employees. It looks bad for you, but is honest.

If the referee was asked their opinion though, it will be difficult for you to succeed in any action. The only recourse would be if they said something like "I always thought majesticallyawkward was a bit shifty, I wouldn't put it past her to steal stuff" without any evidence to back them up.

Can you explain that this person bullied you and can you ask them to approach someone else at the company to give a more factual reference? Or even a reference from another previous employer?

If I could afford it, financially and mentally, I would be minded to pursue this in a civil court. At the very least make it clear to your new employer that you are preparing to do this, it may add weight to your telling them that the bad reference is malicious and they may be willing to be flexible about accepting a reference from elsewhere.

Could you ask them to wait until your actual LM is back from AL to sort this out and that whoever gave them the oral reference has never managed you.

Either way I would go and get some legal advice especially because of the word of mouth industry. This needs to be stamped out now if you want a job. Perhaps the new employee will be more willing to look a bit deeper once they get a solicitors letter on their desk. Ok this job will be gone, but it helps to clear your name for the next time.

My company don’t accept verbal references for this very reason. It’s shit of the new company to do this do you and many be a red flag that they would not be good to work for. If you really think they are worth working for I would contact them and explain the bad blood and ask them to seek a ref from the Hr dept at your previous work.

Also, there may be legal cover with your house insurance

sent awful text messages swearing at me.

So, some of it’s in writing them.

*then

Yes @Piglet89 some of it is in writing, but just that one part. I have screen shots of them and will send them with a complaint to the hr department along with a log is kept of this persons unprofessional behaviour.

This does help me somewhat though because they claim I had massive performance issues, didn't get on well with anyone etc and actually all of my reviews and feedback say the opposite.

I've spoken to a couple of other ex-colleagues who are happy to provide references for me, most of them more senior than the malicious person and known to the potential employer.
I think I have to accept this role isn't going to happen, I'm gutted. It was perfect and ruined because of one awful person.

Has your prospective new employer put in writing to you what the reference said? Or was that feedback just verbal as well?

@BIWI

Has your prospective new employer put in writing to you what the reference said? Or was that feedback just verbal as well?

Verbal unfortunately, they got the 'reference' verbally and told the recruiter. This is totally this managers style, to keep everything verbal so there's no come back on them.

I emailed to follow up this morning and haven't had a reply yet, I've been on edge all day.

This happened to me in November 2019. I was offered a promotion that I had worked my arse off to get. I had two glowing references and then the third, from The Big Boss, was shit. I’d worked closely with her on projects in the past and she was kept in the loop about significant changes that I implemented, basically overhauling entire processes and streamlining them. I also brought in high profile corporate partners and massively expanded a portfolio that I managed at no cost to the business, because I made connections via a social media campaign I designed.

She wrote in the reference that she had witnessed absolutely no business improvement from me, I hadn’t done the things I’d claimed to at interview and she had no faith that I was capable of doing the new job. The offer was pulled because of this.

I spoke to HR and they said it was the first time they’d ever seen this when handling an internal promotion but policy stated that I could not provide additional references in place of the bad one. I went to the Union and they said that references are subjective and because it was a one off, I couldn’t lodge a complaint under the dignity and respect policy because it wasn’t ongoing bullying.

There was absolutely nothing I could do and I ended up leaving after 7 years there.

Oh, I should also point out that the day before the submitted the awful reference, I’d bumped into her and we had a lovely chat. She said the job looked great and she had no problem providing a reference. There was zero indication of what she was about to do and she had praised me for my work.

Also, I was no longer working in her team at that time so it wasn’t a case of tanking my progress because she didn’t want to lose me. She gained absolutely nothing from doing it.

YANBU This is outrageous. At least the person who bullied me out of my last job got HR involved and part of the agreement was a neutral reference for the future.

It is very sad and weird that this colleague is so twisted and nasty and hates you so much she even wants to prevent you leaving.

Thankfully for me, most of my haters have just wanted rid of me.

That's awful @amusedbush
Did you ever have to ask for a reference from that company again?

I'm speaking with someone that might able to help this afternoon. I'm still so angry I daren't do anything else right now, acting when emotional never ends well. It's so frustrating because the hiring people said they loved me! Really positive until this petty idiot stepped in

@majesticallyawkward

That's awful *@amusedbush* Did you ever have to ask for a reference from that company again?

I'm speaking with someone that might able to help this afternoon. I'm still so angry I daren't do anything else right now, acting when emotional never ends well. It's so frustrating because the hiring people said they loved me! Really positive until this petty idiot stepped in

I actually used my rage to fuel something I’d wanted to do for a long time and I applied for a PhD programme. I’m now 9 months into it and couldn’t be happier. I’ve built up some great contacts already by working on side projects and teaching undergraduate tutorials so hopefully I will have a nice stack of references from academics by the time I’m job hunting so I won’t need to use anyone from that job.

What's her reason for treating you like this?

I think there must be more to this that you don't want to tell us.

Could you ask them to wait until your actual LM is back from AL to sort this out and that whoever gave them the oral reference has never managed you.

This might be a possibility.

Could you ask them to wait until your actual LM is back from AL to sort this out and that whoever gave them the oral reference has never managed you.
I think that's a good idea. And in the meantime, is it possible for you to speak to someone at the new place and have an honest conversation about this? I mean, not to bitch about your ex-colleague; I'm sure you wouldn't be so unprofessional –but to point out that you have many reviews and feedback etc that show this to be incorrect.

I'd be trying to find a way to get someone to put some of this in writing.

@IntermittentParps

Could you ask them to wait until your actual LM is back from AL to sort this out and that whoever gave them the oral reference has never managed you. I think that's a good idea. And in the meantime, is it possible for you to speak to someone at the new place and have an honest conversation about this? I mean, not to bitch about your ex-colleague; I'm sure you wouldn't be so unprofessional –but to point out that you have many reviews and feedback etc that show this to be incorrect.

Yes I have a plan to contact the new place Monday to calmly discuss it professionally and explain the backstory (being I pointed out this person did something illegal and they didn't like it, 2 years ago and last we talked everything was fine so this is out of the blue completely!).

I've already talked to other people about getting references, all happy to do it.

Great! Good luck.