Disgusted By Dentists Behaviour!!!

[Windchangeface]

We moved home week before the pandemic and then non of the dentists were taking on patients.

This made me very nervous, I kept an eye out to jump as soon as they opened up.

Well...as of a few weeks ago 3/5 practises within a 15 mile radius of us put up notices on their websites ‘taking on new patients’ great I rang to register me, DH and small DS. But oh no, they aren’t taking on any NHS patients only private or Denplan! (Would cost us a minimum of £50 per month and I’m currently pregnant so should be free anyway). The receptionists at all 3 massively tried to sell me Denplan and actually made me feel like a total sponge for asking about NHS.

‘Most families prefer Denplan’ erm sorry Shannon but I highly doubt ‘most’ families prefer to spend £50+ per month on something that should be £20 a visit for them and free for their kids!

One of the receptionists even told me (in a very snooty tone) ‘no we aren’t taking NHS patients we’ve got enough of those) another stated ‘we’ve met our quota for NHS so are only taking paying patients’.

Given DH is a Dr who spends all day looking after hospital patients free of charge I’m at a loss to understand why dentists feel they’re above the NHS.

Horrible, elitist attitude excluding people who can’t afford to pay from adequate healthcare and forcing those who can to pay high premiums they shouldn’t have to!

Completely agree with you OP, haven’t read the full thread but the first few posts on here are just utter BS. For gods sake, it’s not an optional thing like getting a hair cut, or your nails done. I have no idea why pain to do with our teeth is treated so differently to pain elsewhere in our body.

I can't believe some of the replies here criticising a pregnant woman and children being for expecting basic healthcare. So what next? Calling people out for wanting to see a GP for free, you know you can pay to see a GP, why aren't people doing that? Mumsnet disgusts me sometimes.
I'm 51 and haven't had NHS dental care since I was 16, I pay for my child too. I have appalling teeth because a private dentist performed unnecessary and inept work, my teeth frequently cost me around £1500+ a year. I do have insurance, but it only covers 50% up to point.

For those making comments about an NHS junior doctor. Do you actually know what the salary is of an NHS dentist? - It's a damn sight more than a junior doctor. Up to £86,000 and up £102,000 consultant grade. Whilst I realise there aren't enough community NHS dental jobs to sustain all dentists. There can be a better ratio between private and NHS patients. Dentists who are solely private are choosing profit.

But the thing we should be tackling is the underfunding of the NHS, not making people feel guilty for expecting basic healthcare. The government does have the money, they just choose to prioritise the wrong things.

ibblebibbledibble

I should have just saved the rant and waited for you to post, as that's basically the jist of it!

I get you Op and actually I’m a little suspicious about this myself. Pre covid they’d was still quite a few dentists I could get nhs patients in relatively quickly (I do this often as part of my job) now absolutely none are taking nhs patients but you can get a private appointment very quickly. My own dentist is also working on reduced hours which a think a few others are so I wonder if it’s more to do with that. But no I can’t even get children who desperately needs a dentist to be seen and it’s actually shocking.

People saying op’s husband is a doctor, junior doctors are ridiculously under paid especially when they start out and I know a few who’ve done it slightly later so have been raising families. One who was earning significantly less than a friend who was working for Amazon in their warehouse.

@Windchangeface - whilst I agree it’s bad you cannot access NHS dental care, your latest post reveals you have not bothered to read the posts explaining the differences in the way NHS dentistry and NHS medical care are funded. Most dentists don’t receive a wage, but are self-employed. You have been seeking NHS care from self-employed dentists in general dental practice, not care from salaried NHS employees.

This isn’t a new problem. I worked for NHS Direct (now 111) 19 years ago and people couldn’t get NHS dentists then either.

Considering it's the government responsible for funding NHS and dentists I think your blame is misdirected.
Yanbu to be pissed off about not being able to see an nhs dentist, but like others have said. The blame lies with the government. Yabu to blame the dentist for doing what is best for them.
I'm actually shocked that practice wont take under 18s on though.
I know we are incredibly lucky to have an nhs dentist and I make sure we go regularly to keep our places.

Why are we blaming dentists and not the government...? Dental health is incredibly important. Dental abscesses can kill. Dental check ups and non-cosmetic treatment should be covered by the NHS. The fact that they are not is not the fault of a single dentist, or a pregnant woman or a doctor.

The reason you can get a private appointment but not an nhs one could be because the about of nhs work a dentist can do this year has gone down. Dentists may be choosing private work because they can, whereas most dentists cannot simply choose to do nhs. It has to be allocated to a practise.

Do you not hear how entitled you sound!!!
As a wife of junior doctor you will eventually be
earning significantly more, and like nursery fees, I’m sorry but you will just have to fund it.

I go private and left NHS - as the quality was atrocious but it is there for a purpose for those who need it.

Just pay for you and your child’s check ups on a pay as you go basis.

FWIW, There are people really struggling during Covid - lost jobs and on income support who would otherwise be employed. They still have mortgages to pay and children to look after. If their biggest worry was £50 a month for dentistry, I’m sure they’d be laughing.

It’s a shame that NHS services have been cut but there’s nothing that can be done immediately.

Just look at the wider picture and see how privileged you are.

@Windchangeface

To be clear I didn’t actually speak to a dentist just the receptionist so when I say ‘disgusted at dentists behaviour’ I’m not singling out an individual dentist but the whole attitude of dentistry and the practises.

Ofc DH receives a wage (not as much as many seem to think though), as do dentists but my DH and his colleagues spend all day every day caring for patients who aren’t directly charged for their care. They are all NHS.
I know there are long waiting lists for some nhs medical procedures but only because there are too many people needing them, despite 100% of resources going toward NHS patients.
In dentistry they can’t meet the need because they’re closing off half their week to only see private patients and earn more money. It’s like the local hospital saying ‘yeah that 1 year waiting list is now gonna be 3 years because we are only taking paying patients on Wednesday and Friday!’

Ofc it’s more the governments fault than the dentists but the way the receptionist spoke to me really upset me. Imagine if I were a struggling mum on benefits the last thing I’d need is to be patronised and spoken down to like that!

You either go with the system or start getting involved in politics to try to change it.

TBH some people, when they do move house, look around at the options for dental care beforehand.

It's been known for years that NHS dentistry is in decline.

Ultimately, you choose where to live and some people would have taken into account dental provision as part of that decision.

I agree that the system is broken, but I suspect the practice thought they were being helpful by suggesting Denplan.

Where I live there are no dentists who mix NHS and private. It's one or the other. If people move here I expect they would know this beforehand.

As I said before, pay as you go might be cheaper.

@1starwars2

We all managed to register with our village dentist as NHS patients 10 years ago. I would phone round more dentists, and once you have one, it's worth sticking with it.

It’s only worth sticking to if you have confidence in the dentist and the work they’re doing for you. My experience with an NHS dentist was not positive. I’m sure most people who can access NHS dentistry are happy, but I wasn’t..

When we moved to this area nearly 25 years ago we couldn't get an NHS dentist. Our dentist took us on Denplan and the children as NHS. Dentists aren't charities, they have to cover their costs and the NHS isn't paying them enough in my opinion.

I know I wouldn't go back to NHS now as private is better, more choices, more time. Medicine is the same except most doctors get a salary so I don't know why OP is pretending it is different.

OP your title is misleading.

It isn't any dentists fault that you can't get NHS treatment it is the government.

I knew this over 20 years ago so stayed with the same dental practice even though I lived in different places in London.

I actually get my check ups on the NHS but depending on the treatment I need I have to pay for it privately to ensure the dentist has sufficient time to do it.

Dentists are paid for a certain number of NHS treatments a year (it's actually a points system based on the complexity of the treatment but the principle is the same). If they've filled their NHS numbers, taking on extra NHS patients would mean providing treatment at a loss. They're not a charity.

Government underfunding of NHS dentistry is a scandal but it isn't the dentists' fault.

Also Denplan is very unlikely to be £50 a month unless your teeth need a lot of work. Mine is £15 and that covers 2 check ups, 2 hygienist visits plus of course any work I need (excluding lab coats).

You’re completely right OP, it’s disgusting. The fact so many people think it’s ok on this thread is seriously concerning. Such an ‘I'm alright jack’ attitude.

It’s just like America & it’s medical care that people here are so quick to criticise, but when it comes to oral health it’s ok. Why?

YANBU. Dentists accepting NHS patients are like hen’s teeth which I think is dreadful. Shame on the governments that have created this problem and shame on those who have voted them in.

It’s always baffled me how we expect to find healthcare on the NHS as standard, paid for by taxes, unless it’s dentistry. Considering that the first process in digestion is the chewing of our food, and how important nutrition is to our overall health, plus the link between oral health and overall body health, it's so important to have a functioning set of teeth. Why don’t the government work on ways to change this so that affordable dentistry is more accessible? At the moment it seems as though (in theory) you’re looked after if you’re very poor, and you can pay privately without it causing a big impact if you’re very comfortably off, but for the vast numbers of people between the two, it’s a struggle.

Totally with you OP, Teeth health is important.

A question - do dentists in the UK train using NHS resources/ money/ tax payer funding as other health care workers such as drs and nurses do? If they do then they should be taking on NHS patients, and far more of them. It is utterly impossible to get an NHS palce in a dentist here.

I agree with you, OP. Except without the affront. I recognise no dentist has to offer NHS care and so just used to smile and say thank you and look elsewhere.

It took us a good while to find a local dentist who did NHS work. We started off by having one in the next town and then as new ones opened, signed up with them until finally one opened in the next village to ours.

It's so short sighted not to look after the nation's teeth on NHS as many people can't afford private or health insurance, as you rightly say, and won't have check ups. The knock on ailments that arise from poor dental care will strain the NHS far worse. Gum disease is linked with heart disease, strokes, diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis.

And for everyone whose teeth are falling out "because they can't see a dentist" absolute bullshit. You are responsible for your diet and your oral hygiene. 99% of issues are entirely preventable using google and a 99pence toothpaste. Stop blaming other people for your poor choices
@Mrsmorton, that’s a bit unfair and isn’t looking at the bigger picture. Here’s an example...40+ years ago child needed fillings despite brushing teeth and having a good diet. Over time fillings fell out and replacing them made the teeth fragile. Parts of the fragile teeth broke, causing infection, requiring more treatment. All this is despite the now adult taking their oral health seriously and requiring no new fillings. So it’s possible to have a mess of teeth despite what you say.

I have always managed to have an NHS dentist, there are several in this part of rural Gloucestershire. In fact NHS is generally pretty wonderful here. You still have to pay, and anything fancy has to be done privately. I go to a very inexpensive but excellent private dentist in Brighton for that.

Your DH doesn't work all day in a hospital "free of charge". He is an NHS employee who works in an NHS hospital. Dental practices aren't part of the NHS. They are private businesses. Some have chosen to take on an NHS contract to provide some services but that doesn't mean they have to treat every patient who wants NHS dental care. They can pick and choose their customers just as every other private business can .The NHS doesn't pay them that much for NHS care and I'm not sure it will cover the cost of PPE at the moment. Therefore many are just treating private patients so they can cover their costs.

@singsingbluesilver

Totally with you OP, Teeth health is important.

A question - do dentists in the UK train using NHS resources/ money/ tax payer funding as other health care workers such as drs and nurses do? If they do then they should be taking on NHS patients, and far more of them. It is utterly impossible to get an NHS palce in a dentist here.

They pay university fees like medics do and any other university course.

I agree with you OP. Dental care should be free on the NHS for everyone just like other healthcare. If we’ve got billions to spend on nukes and for the government to waste on contracts to their pals, we’ve got the money to take care of people’s health in this country.

Whilst it really shouldn't be necessary, don't assume Denplan is the best option. There are other policies available, make sure you know what you are signing up for.
We insure directly with Simply Health (who own Denplan), it works out better for us, as I have crap teeth.

I'm horrified at the replies here, shocked at the vitriol towards someone expecting social healthcare. These are the attitudes that got the US into the mess it's in regarding healthcare.