AIBU to ask what you’d interpret by the phrase “Close of Play”

[CyanSnake]

Hello all.

WIBU to ask you to help settle a light hearted debate I had with a colleague over lunch today?

I’d sent an email out asking for a task to be completed “by close of play Friday”. Now what I meant by this, was that I’m going to work on the project over the weekend; so I need other staff to do their part before 5pm on Friday.

If I knew I wasn’t going to look at it until Monday I’d have said “The deadline is first thing Monday” or “Can I have it by 9am Monday.”

Now my colleague said that she would interpret the phrase “by close of play Friday” to mean “I want to work on it first thing Monday” and that if I directly set a deadline of Monday morning it sounds like I’m directing staff to work over the weekend.

I asked what she would do if she needed something to work on over the weekend and she said she’d ask for it by Friday lunch and chase over the afternoon if it wasn’t done.

So how would you take the phrase?

YANBU - “Close of play Friday” means “By end of business hours on Friday”

YABU - “Close of play Friday” means “On my desk before I start work on Monday”

It's not a little used phrase.

Your colleague is either lazy or stupid. It obviously means by the end of the day.

Presumably too, if they finish work at 5, they probably start at 9, so how exactly are they going to have it on your desk before 9? They coming in at 6 to finish it off and then hand it in? Or just handing it over completed as they walk in the door? In which case it's done by Friday at 5 and they could have submitted it then.

Hate working with people like that. They think they are clever and hard working, but all they do is make everyone else's job harder.

Obviously end of play on Friday = end of working hours on Friday.

@ClarkeGriffin

Your colleague is either lazy or stupid. It obviously means by the end of the day.

Presumably too, if they finish work at 5, they probably start at 9, so how exactly are they going to have it on your desk before 9? They coming in at 6 to finish it off and then hand it in? Or just handing it over completed as they walk in the door? In which case it's done by Friday at 5 and they could have submitted it then.

Hate working with people like that. They think they are clever and hard working, but all they do is make everyone else's job harder.

It depends on the culture of the workplace. In mine they would be intending to work over the weekend or come in at the crack of dawn on the Monday to have it done by 9. As I said before many of my colleagues expect to work early, late and at weekends to meet deadlines and "end of play on Friday" would be often interpreted as start of play on Monday, unless it was made clearer, because that is how things work with us. It isn't a great culture because what happens is deadlines are set unnaturally early and we all treat them as flexible. So if I want everybody to do something by the end of today, I would have told them it had to be done by last Friday, reminded them yesterday and expect most people to do it by next Monday.

@ClarkeGriffin

Your colleague is either lazy or stupid. It obviously means by the end of the day.

Presumably too, if they finish work at 5, they probably start at 9, so how exactly are they going to have it on your desk before 9? They coming in at 6 to finish it off and then hand it in? Or just handing it over completed as they walk in the door? In which case it's done by Friday at 5 and they could have submitted it then.

Hate working with people like that. They think they are clever and hard working, but all they do is make everyone else's job harder.

I'm not sure I'd want to be working with someone like you either - the only explanation is lazy or stupid? How about a different opinion - a different work culture? Maybe you should be a bit more open minded and not jump to the worst conclusions. You sound like you'd start an argument with yourself.

@DGRossetti

Odd response smile

What is odd about that?

Why in the name of fuck can't OP and all other bollock-speak artists just state things clearly?

If the fucking deadline is 5pm Friday, why not write that instead of using a potentially ambiguous buzz-phrase?

Why?

Your colleague is being deliberately awkward. It's clear you want the stuff on Friday. I'd say COP though was the end of your working day not a specific time

COP is Civil Service slang and means the end of the business day-ish. IME it can be stretched to about 7pm, unless it's specified that it's for a speech or something that day/evening.

There’s nothing ambiguous about COP Friday. It means end of business hours Friday. Not Monday 9am.

I think your colleague is being awkward, it's obvious what you meant but in future maybe just say exactly what you mean instead using wanky business speak and then there's no excuse for argument

[quote DynamoKev]@DGRossetti

Odd response smile

What is odd about that?

Why in the name of fuck can't OP and all other bollock-speak artists just state things clearly?

If the fucking deadline is 5pm Friday, why not write that instead of using a potentially ambiguous buzz-phrase?

Why?[/quote]
Well I was told it was odd last night, so just passing it on.

FWIW I agree with you. And when we see "after teatime" as the launch for the next NASA rocket, I might go back under my rock. But until then, if you have to use a deliberately vague phrase like "close of play" [13] rather than "17;00" [5] you really need to expect to have a similar spread of understanding.

It's almost as wanky as "working days" which I know for fact go someone a rocket up their arse once, because they promised something within "x working days" to a US client. And guess what ? The US do not do bank holidays ....

If you want something by 5pm say so. Just saying "5pm" carries the implication it's important.

If you airily say "close of play Friday" then your lack of precision also conveys a lack of urgency.

But, that's an odd view.

Apparently.

I'd say COP though was the end of your working day not a specific time

Yes. No need for a hard deadline, but before you shut down on Friday evening, have it done.

As pps said - before the people doing the task go home on a Friday.

I find, though, that it's best to be totally unambiguous with deadlines e.g.
'Please respond by 5pm on Friday.'

One of our clients uses the expression however they ask for something by the end of the week, we get it done by mid afternoon friday and they've already gone, or they get shitty because it's not done before they go. Often they leave by 1pm or 2pm on Fridays so in effect they really want everything by COP Thursday or midday day friday.

Close of business is 5pm friday
Close of play is midnight friday
Neither are Monday morning

Instead of using the phrase "close of play Friday" why didn't the person simply say "I need your contribution to this on my desk by 5pm on Friday as I need to compile it together with everyone else's contributions by 9am Monday"
No room for ambiguity there.

by 11.59 pm friday for me! I am very specific about times and don't use 'close of play' as a phrase.

Instead of using the phrase "close of play Friday" why didn't the person simply say "I need your contribution to this on my desk by 5pm on Friday as I need to compile it together with everyone else's contributions by 9am Monday"
No room for ambiguity there

I would go further and say "I need your contribution to this on my desk by 5pm on Friday". By mentioning Monday some people will see that as wiggle room.

I don’t agree with your colleague’s interpretation of close of play. However I do think they have a better approach if you need things in to work on over the weekend.

Your vague COP means you need to be monitoring what is coming in from 5pm until midnight to check you have it all and then if you don’t what can you do, you can’t really chase over the weekend? Asking for things in by 3 or 4pm means you have a couple of business hours to follow up on anything that is missing.

But surely if it is office based work, a huge amount of offices work 8 - 4 or 9 -5 Monday to Friday so Close of Play would mean the time that the office closes on a Friday?

It's an idiomatic expression and therefore I would use close of business as I work in a global organisation and not everyone would understand close of play (though I'm sure they could guess fairly accurately). If I wanted to be sure I had the info by a specific time, I'd put by X time UTC in my email.

Why in the name of fuck can't OP and all other bollock-speak artists just state things clearly?

If the fucking deadline is 5pm Friday, why not write that instead of using a potentially ambiguous buzz-phrase?

Why?

The "buzz-phrase" isn't "ambiguous", It's possibly imprecise, which isn't the same thing, and may not be a fault. Could even be a virtue.

Maybe people have different finishing times, and OP doesn't care whether it's done by 1pm, 5pm or midnight, as long as it's done before a yet-to-be-decided time on Saturday morning when she intends to work on it.

I word emails very carefully, and I can see myself being deliberately imprecise in exactly this way because I don't want false/irrelevant precision to place unnecessary constraints on someone else.

(Explaining that it was needed by an as-yet-undetermined time on Saturday morning would not be a good option, because it introduces more words and concepts for people to process than the minimum necessary. It would obfuscate rather than help. Even if she'd said she wanted it be 6am Saturday, although precise and concise, that unusual requirement would have set off trains of thought in each recipient that weren't the best use of their time.)

Ime you also need to factor in those people who are always late responding and give yourself some wriggle room in order to chase responses. That kind of thing can depend on the culture of your organisation though. I think your colleague is being obtuse in order to give herself an excuse for not responding on time. If she can have it ready on Monday morning she can have it ready by COP on Friday.

I think it’s completely clear that it’s 5pm Friday. It’s completely standard wording in my industry and I’m a bit that you could take it as anything else really.

@RandomLondoner

Why in the name of fuck can't OP and all other bollock-speak artists just state things clearly?

If the fucking deadline is 5pm Friday, why not write that instead of using a potentially ambiguous buzz-phrase?

Why?

The "buzz-phrase" isn't "ambiguous", It's possibly imprecise, which isn't the same thing, and may not be a fault. Could even be a virtue.

Maybe people have different finishing times, and OP doesn't care whether it's done by 1pm, 5pm or midnight, as long as it's done before a yet-to-be-decided time on Saturday morning when she intends to work on it.

I word emails very carefully, and I can see myself being deliberately imprecise in exactly this way because I don't want false/irrelevant precision to place unnecessary constraints on someone else.

(Explaining that it was needed by an as-yet-undetermined time on Saturday morning would not be a good option, because it introduces more words and concepts for people to process than the minimum necessary. It would obfuscate rather than help. Even if she'd said she wanted it be 6am Saturday, although precise and concise, that unusual requirement would have set off trains of thought in each recipient that weren't the best use of their time.)

You are making a ridiculously long winded justification for the fact you want to be deliberately ambiguous when there's no need.

In the circumstance you describe why the hell not just say "by 9am on Saturday" (or whenever is the earliest you'd be looking at it?)

That would be clear and simple.