Aibu that dogs are now a class identifier??

[MammabearX1]

Just that.... Since my dc have returned to school (London prep) the school gates are crowded with little fluffy pups.... All expensive cockapoo or cavachon types... Thorough breds seems to be gone out of fashion & there's not a mongrel in sight... I'm thinking these are a class identifier as those fluffy dogs are so expensive... My husband thinks it's down to the dogs size making them perfect for London living with smaller garden space etc... Is it just our school? When I was young the posh kids had cocker spaniels or some type of working dogs but then I grew up in the country...

So do humans and chimpanzees - are we descended from Chimps, or the other way around?

Neither, we share a common ancestor.

I think the point the poster was trying to make is that dogs descend from a wolf-like ancestor, and our modern 'breeds' are a human construct.

Money has never been a class identifier though. Plenty of designer clothes and designer dogs are coveted only by chavs. There are plenty of chavvy rich private school parents too. Money alone doesn't define class. What about Frenchies? Aren't they the most expensive breed currently? Coveted by rich and poor chavs equally. I saw a tracksuit and baseball capped dad and son dragging a tired looking pregnant Frenchie through town today, and I also see them sat in the cars outside the private school adorned in pink collars.

Dog breeds totally go through fashion trends though. It was labradoodles and pugs, now it's cavapoos and frenchies.

I think there's always been a class divide. I see the bigger muscular dogs like staffies in the poorer areas and the little whispy mini dogs in richer areas. Trends come and go.

I hope the pug trend is dying out like some are suggesting. I feel sorry for the dogs who have breathing issues.

I've never owned a dog but would definitely want a mongrel. Much healthier generally.

I live in a village where there a lot of dog owners. There really is a huge variety. I haven’t thought much of it. On our street we have huskies, terriers (inc my own), spaniels, a cockapoo and labs etc! Never really thought of it your way!

I work in an airport in live cargo. If you could see the dogs coming from the farms in Eastern Europe you would cry. 3 weeks old, send 10 pups with faked papers budgeting on a 50% survival rate. Photos on their website showing happy family homes. Ditto parrots. A crate of Macaws, half of them dead with captive breeding papers but still having adhesive in their claws. CITES don't care, I have seen baby orangutan in pet shops wearing tutus in some gulf states. How could they not intervene? In the same way why are backyard breeders not a
T least done for tax evasion in the UK? If you have a litter of 8 and are selling them for 3 grand, how is that OK? Taking away the moraility, it's a crime.

@Corrag he's lovely. Now we actually onwe one we have, of course, now found out about all the lovely Bully rescue centres... I have my eye on one at the moment. I dream I could manage 2

@CuriousaboutSamphire
My neighbour had the most deranged bully when I was growing up, and I'm forever terrified when I see them. I'm sure yours are sweethearts as all dogs who have been brought up correctly would be. But I just can't shake the fear when I see one.

I have a leavitt bulldog. He's literally the softest most beautiful dog I've ever had.

@WhoEatsPopTarts

Where I live it is, but the cockapoo is for the try hards. The ‘posh’ all have rescue dogs.

Really happy to hear that! we just got a very fat and scruffy rescue mongrel.

@Kindperson that is shocking. I think that’s the kind of place those rich people breeder use - didn’t it come out when mollie May something bought one and it died like two weeks later?

I have my dog just a year now and I love him so much - can’t bear the thought of anything happening to him.

@TheBlackTower I have always loved Bull Terriers (as a child, my neighbours had them) but sadly because I have never owned a dog before I would be unlikely to be a suitable owner for one due to inexperience

We last had dogs as kids. I took the plunge because I knew a couple of good trainers and coud give him time, lots of time!

Very nearly bloody broke me! 9 months up to 15 months were utter hell! That was after he stopped using his teeth on everything, stopped lunging on his lead, escaping the first collar and harness we had and generally being way, way too pig headed. That all ended and we entered the battle of wills... which I think is just about coming to an end

They aren't horrid or in any way untrainable. You just have to forget anything you know about biddable dogs, like labradors etc. Dogs that were grown to do a job and to do as they were told. Bullies just aren't that kind of dog! As I often say, here I am, he is almost 30 months old and I am almost, but not quite out of Saints to name and ask for patience.

And just when you think you're winning... it took half an hour to get him to admit he knew this wasn't a game and we really should go home

It isn’t a London thing.

Surrey is the same. Sausage dogs seem to be thing and apparently a puppy costa around £4K!!!

@CuriousaboutSamphire ohmygoodness - what a saga during those first weeks/months! I actually admire the Bullies' stubbornness (I'm sure I wouldn't be saying this when trying desperately to train one or coax one into doing something it didn't want to do!). Beautiful dogs and gorgeous personalities. Yours is clearly very cherished - what a sweet (and stubborn!) pup.

[quote Catwoman123]@CuriousaboutSamphire
My neighbour had the most deranged bully when I was growing up, and I'm forever terrified when I see them. I'm sure yours are sweethearts as all dogs who have been brought up correctly would be. But I just can't shake the fear when I see one.

I have a leavitt bulldog. He's literally the softest most beautiful dog I've ever had.[/quote]
I think they are all deranged at times, lots of times

Sometimes I catch myself smiling indulgently and realising that anyone else watching would probably think he was beng incredibly aggressive. The body language and bark/growl play sounds just aren't the same as most other dogs!

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to get close to him, to accept he is a real softy. That is not for me to push on anyone! And to be honest I know that if I tried to introduce him to anyone who was fearful of him his natural bounce would be terrifying! So I don't. Even when I really really want to change someone's mind abot the breed

I would love to get a rescue. We have tried for some years . But because i worked part time ( 7 mins from home and was able to go home and walk a dog on my two full.days at lunch time) i was told no .. those not at work only. How else was i supposed to afford to pay for a dog that needed the groomer ?!
Discriminatory. Such a shame when we were so willing but had to work. Such a shame when anyone can go an buy one anyway .

@SemperIdem

Dogs have always been class identifiers.

The flat faced dogs, which were all very expensive in comparison to other breeds pre-lockdown, seem to mostly belong to people who care less about dogs than they do animal welfare.

I was just coming on here to say the same.

@Kindperson

I work in an airport in live cargo. If you could see the dogs coming from the farms in Eastern Europe you would cry. 3 weeks old, send 10 pups with faked papers budgeting on a 50% survival rate. Photos on their website showing happy family homes. Ditto parrots. A crate of Macaws, half of them dead with captive breeding papers but still having adhesive in their claws. CITES don't care, I have seen baby orangutan in pet shops wearing tutus in some gulf states. How could they not intervene? In the same way why are backyard breeders not a T least done for tax evasion in the UK? If you have a litter of 8 and are selling them for 3 grand, how is that OK? Taking away the moraility, it's a crime.

Careful telling the truth there @Kindperson I’ve tried to point this out in the past and the naive, ill informed but opinionated will argue this doesn’t happen ....

I will never reveal my location. And actually this happens everywhere. I happen to be in a location where things are more accepted but it happens everywhere.

@LookingGlassMilk

So do humans and chimpanzees - are we descended from Chimps, or the other way around?

Neither, we share a common ancestor.

I think the point the poster was trying to make is that dogs descend from a wolf-like ancestor, and our modern 'breeds' are a human construct.

Interesting but also not in evidence. Dogs, wolves, walruses and several other rather unlikely things have a common ancestor that looked like a cross between a racoon and a squirrel! Have a look at the picture here - they were sort of cute! www.britannica.com/animal/Miacis

One of the reasons why this is all so mysterious is that almost all of what might have remained of these creatures - the fossil record that we would use of so many other species including our own - does not exist because they were primarily forest dwellers. The internal climate of forests does not lend towards maintaining fossil records. So we have little to go on in terms of what dogs - or even wolves - descended from and how that happened. Which is why the science of it is fascinating (to me anyway!). There is so little of it and there are huge leaps of guesswork in between.

Not RTFT yet, but I'm pretty sure you posted this exact thing a few months ago, nearly word for word, you may have dropped in something about Land Rovers or some sort of big car as well...

It's really pissed me off how popular a certain breed of dog has become, because I've wanted one for 10 years, and we're only now in a position to get it. SO not only is it going to cost £££ but I'm going to look like a bloody sheep. Luckily, I'm not really getting the dog for other people to look at me, and I don't look at other people and think anything about why they have their dog. The most I've thought over the years is 'damn you, i'm envious, how cute is your doggggggg??!' and now I'm 'YAY! I'm getting one soon! I can't wait.'

RE: Rescue, I would get a rescue dog in a shot, however, even though I work from home, there are other factors which deem us unsuitable.

@CuriousaboutSamphire My heart would love a second bullie but my head resolutely says no

I don't think people necessarily buy such dogs and think that it is going to indicate their class, but I do think there are people who are sheep and will always do whatever they can to match what others are doing. It's like they aren't possible of an independent thought.

I'm always pleased when people I'd expect to have X type of dog instead have something quite random or the opposite of what you would expect.

Did someone mention sheep?

This s doing the rounds of the Bully community at the moment

My neighbours were afraid of my dog, so I put a wig on him

😂

I’m in Leicestershire and around here it’s definitely a suburban / rural dividing line more than a class divider. Townies have the expensive designer crossbreeds.

Country people have working dogs. I know a lot of normal horsey people, most of them not at all posh, and the most common breeds by far are Labs, Springers, JRTs and, of course, lots of lurchers, the scruffier the better. All the gundogs are proper ones, from working lines, never show types.

Moondust001 Dogs and wolves are still essentially the same species, they can breed and produce fertile offspring. Dogs and wolves clearly diverged from a common wolf like ancester very recently.

Walruses etc diverged from a common ancestor to wolves a very very long time ago. They're not in the canidae family.

All of this is completely irrelevant to the point that was being made. If you go back far enough all life on earth has a common ancestor.