To expect my work to pay for broadband and other wfh expenses?

[Zazzii]

Since last March like many of us I have been working from home - I have a work laptop and phone and use our spare room. I had always worked the odd day at home when it was convenient for wating in for deliveries/ appointments etc but only once or twice a month. I, and line manager etc, were happy with this but it was seen as a bit of a perk

Now that working from home is established as the 'new normal' is it wrong for me to expect my employer to cover my broadband costs? They dont seem inclined to give us anything telling us that as we have it already there is no increased costs for us of using it for an additional 7 hours a day.

It is vital for the business that we are connected therefore the cost should be met by the business. Plans from teh summer are for us to continue working from home at least for part of the week so it will be long term.

I undertsand that they dont want to get involved in discussions about individual broadband contracts etc but a standard amount for all staff - say £30 a month?, £40?- should be part of our expenses claim. Or do I need to accept it as part of the new way of working?

Then there are other expenses which I have incurred over the past year - bigger things like the heating and electricity during the day but also small things like the coffee, tea and other refreshments I would normally expect to have at work which I have had to pay for.

I havent reduced any costs in other areas - my commute is 2 miles by bike so negilible cost and time saving.

Am I being unreasonable? Would it be unreasonable to try and rally my fellow workers to ask for this?

@LakieLady

We are also recognizing that work done from home is about 25% less productive than that done in the office. We are continuing to pay people the same, have done no layoffs, and are keeping going. Despite our revenue being reduced by about 25% over the last year. Again, nobody to blame, but the cost has not reduced along with the revenue

I work for a not-for-profit organisation, so productivity is measured differently.

Because we're not travelling around to see clients, attend tribunals etc, we've been far more productive. I can work right up to the time a tribunal starts (they're done by conference call) and start again the minute it's over, instead of crawling through traffic for ages and then sitting in the waiting room with the client for a couple of hours. I can use that time in productive ways instead.

It's freed up enough time for us to start taking referrals from projects that we couldn't support before, and the gains we get for clients have shot through the roof. And we've been delivering more training as well.

This is a lot closer to our experience. The people in my team are generally slightly more productive working from home, and they prefer it. It looks like part of the time that people would otherwise spend commuting back is being turned into productive work.

We are seeing some evidence that, when things get really manic, people are finding it harder to churn out the very long days the job sometimes requires. In these situations the separation from distractions that being in an office provides can be helpful. But these busy periods are the exception rather than the rule, and we seem still to be looking at a net win on the productivity front.

There are other challenges around supervision, training, team cohesion etc. but these are the fault of the situation, not the staff.

If your people are doing 25% less work when they wfh, that does tend to suggest that you just have a fucking lazy group. I suspect if you look closer at the figures, you'll find that some people are doing just fine whereas others have fallen off a cliff. If I were managing those people, I would find that massively instructive.

I'm NHS can you imagine asking for additional compensation to WFH
We also pay for our own tea coffee milk
Do you not appreciate your companies are doing this to keep YOU and you're families safe
Companies did not embrace this as a cost cutting exercise it was forced to try and keep business afloat and reduce the spread of COVID
I can't understand how selfish people are you have a job you apparently have been able to stay safe, you are one of the fortunate that can work from home.

The only time employers paid for broadband was about 25 years ago when it was dial up and unusual to have it at home. My mate had hers paid for as a regional sales rep.

Another friend is now WFH and had an issue with using the dining chair for long periods as it was affecting her back. She rang her employer and they got someone to bring her actual chair in from work. I thought that seemed like a really decent practical solution.

We have lost our spare room as it is now an office. DH solved the needing a desk issue by converting the bed in there in to a very large desk! It’s hard to describe but it is a cabin bed with removable panels that we had made so sounds odd but has worked well.

Sounds like OP hasn’t made any money because of saving commuting costs hence the annoyance. We are saving about 25 a week plus the odd lunch out. One of my friends who has a ridiculous 2 hour minimum commute involving train and car saved thousands last year.

@harknesswitch

The OP is one of the reasons I hate managing people, and thankfully I've found a job I enjoy without having to do it any longer.

There's always that one person on your team who will feel entitled to EVERYTHING. Give an inch and they will still find a way of complaining that you didn't give them a mile.

My company recently announced that they were reducing out hours, specifically we had an extra 2 hours off on a Friday, and an extra 4 days holiday a year, to take at Xmas. With no impact to salary. A member of our team then started to ask how it would affect his holidays and if he booked a Friday off, did he get those two hours back, what about good Friday etc. He then went onto moan that he didn't want to take Xmas off and he wanted the 4 days to take at other times.

Oh God, I can so relate to this. We have a few people in our office who are literally never happy. These are also the people waiting by the clock in machine at 4.59 because they're not "f#cking working for free" and see the annual sick pay entitlement as " part of their holidays and a target" as opposed to as required. Then, they get extra bitter as they get passed over for promotion ( shock horror) and only get worse but probably not bad enough to fire. They;'re so bad for the whole culture of our office, I'd love it if they just left to torment someone else. I hate hate managing people, I've seen a side to people that I never dreamt existed

@harknesswitch

The OP is one of the reasons I hate managing people, and thankfully I've found a job I enjoy without having to do it any longer.

There's always that one person on your team who will feel entitled to EVERYTHING. Give an inch and they will still find a way of complaining that you didn't give them a mile.

My company recently announced that they were reducing out hours, specifically we had an extra 2 hours off on a Friday, and an extra 4 days holiday a year, to take at Xmas. With no impact to salary. A member of our team then started to ask how it would affect his holidays and if he booked a Friday off, did he get those two hours back, what about good Friday etc. He then went onto moan that he didn't want to take Xmas off and he wanted the 4 days to take at other times.

"Hate" is a very strong word to use in thus context, cand yours is an oddly grandiose post. It's also very general, yet oddly specific to your personal experiences at the same time. Employees asking questions about contractual restructuring is perfectly normal and reasonable. They're not slaves who must meekly keep their heads vowed and never question changes to their working conditions.

In my case, by the time I've provided my employer with use of a laptop, telephone line, broadband, workspace, heat and light, and purchased my own desk and office chair, I do find the British approach to employee compensation quire draconian.

The saving on commuting expenses line doesn't really cut it. In the Netherlands, where I used to live, employees deduct their actual commuting expenses from their income tax bill. Not a proportion of them, not up to a ridiculously low mileage allowance. Their actual full commuting to work costs.

Different culture here which is rather old fashioned and needs shaken up. The wfh tax allowance is utterly pathetic.

I'm a teacher, I' had to buy my own laptop and printer/scanner and get broadband (was on a PAYG dongle). Paying for all my paper and ink etc, no expenses paid whatsoever. Posting out work packs etc to students. Cost me a lot of money! When I asked for assistance for paper/postage was told to use the money I was saving from not travelling! I only live 5 miles from work. It's cost me and continues to cost me but I've done it for my students. Some of my colleagues have refused so their students have suffered, as not all have internet or printing facilities. it has annoyed me on occasion that it's expected.

@freeandfierce

I'm a teacher, I' had to buy my own laptop and printer/scanner and get broadband (was on a PAYG dongle). Paying for all my paper and ink etc, no expenses paid whatsoever. Posting out work packs etc to students. Cost me a lot of money! When I asked for assistance for paper/postage was told to use the money I was saving from not travelling! I only live 5 miles from work. It's cost me and continues to cost me but I've done it for my students. Some of my colleagues have refused so their students have suffered, as not all have internet or printing facilities. it has annoyed me on occasion that it's expected.

My other half works in a school. The lack of basic resourcing and infrastructure is scandalous.

Tbh, it's hard to put the blame at the feet of anyone except the people who keep voting Tory. It's very clear that the party has a populist agenda atm against certain groups - in particular teachers and charities - that is wholly unmerited and counterproductive. And nothing's going to change as long as they have 90% of the mainstream press firmly on their side.

I'm not sure where i'm going with this except to express outrage and sympathy. They really are a shower of cunts.

Btw, before anyone reports: it's the tories who are cunts, not the people who vote for them (as a class, like). though I think many of the latter have been hoodwinked or are grossly misguided

The saving on commuting expenses line doesn't really cut it. In the Netherlands, where I used to live, employees deduct their actual commuting expenses from their income tax bill. Not a proportion of them, not up to a ridiculously low mileage allowance. Their actual full commuting to work costs.
This is also true for my former colleagues in Paris - they were amazed I had to pay my commuting costs from my own taxed income.

That's one reason I am so happy to WFH.

I think work should pay for broadband. I want to switch to a cheaper slower service but can’t because I need it for work

I'd like to get rid of my car but can't because I need it to get to work.

Perhaps I should ask for a company car.

@DynamoKev

The saving on commuting expenses line doesn't really cut it. In the Netherlands, where I used to live, employees deduct their actual commuting expenses from their income tax bill. Not a proportion of them, not up to a ridiculously low mileage allowance. Their actual full commuting to work costs. This is also true for my former colleagues in Paris - they were amazed I had to pay my commuting costs from my own taxed income.

That's one reason I am so happy to WFH.

Oh, is it a deduction in France too? Just makes you realise how unfair the UK tax system is for employees all the more.

It is utterly disgraceful that teachers like FreeAndFierce are not only having to provide equipment and print for students at their own exiense, but will be paying income tax on their costs of doing so too!

I'm a lecturer, and I recently bought a new very expensive computer because I needed a powerful enough one to run blackboard collaborate on so I can wfh. Like freeandfierce, I also previously had a single but had to take out a minimum period 18 month broadband package to enable me to wfh. I also bought a desk and office chair. The pathetic wfh tax allowance doesn't even cover the cost of the bruadband.

@thedancingbear

Btw, before anyone reports: it's the tories who are cunts, not the people who vote for them (as a class, like). though I think many of the latter have been hoodwinked or are grossly misguided

That argument works for the first term of a Tory government.

It's blown to bollocks when they get reelected though.

Now that working from home is established as the 'new normal' is it wrong for me to expect my employer to cover my broadband costs? They dont seem inclined to give us anything telling us that as we have it already there is no increased costs for us of using it for an additional 7 hours a day

They're right though. You did have it already and it doesn't cost you more. Your broadband was there when you were out at work.

I'm a lecturer, and I recently bought a new very expensive computer

I am too but have to admit that although no allowance has been paid for home working expenses, equipment hasn't been an issue. Most staff already worked from home to a certain degree so had what they needed. Anybody that needs one has been given a Surface Pro to work on and anything else strictly necessary has been made available. That said, if you want a desk or chair, getting it home is your problem.

The big increase in heating costs is perhaps my only gripe and I'm sure I'm not alone. Particularly as a good proportion of my colleagues previously had zero commuting costs.

@changi

I'm a lecturer, and I recently bought a new very expensive computer

I am too but have to admit that although no allowance has been paid for home working expenses, equipment hasn't been an issue. Most staff already worked from home to a certain degree so had what they needed. Anybody that needs one has been given a Surface Pro to work on and anything else strictly necessary has been made available. That said, if you want a desk or chair, getting it home is your problem.

The big increase in heating costs is perhaps my only gripe and I'm sure I'm not alone. Particularly as a good proportion of my colleagues previously had zero commuting costs.

I'm ad hoc and don't have tenure, so have had to supply everything myself, despite in some cases teaching more contact hours with students than full time, permanent members of staff. I don't get any help with office equipment and setting up, and I'm getting to the stage that I'm wondering whether its financially worth it. Particularly since I get paid for one hour's preparation for certain classes I teach, when in reality its usually nearer 3 hours if you want to do a good job. So 2 hours are unpaid. Not to mention the unpaid admin...

So I chose a more expensive laptop recently when I had to replace my old one. Replaced my dongle with broadband. That sort of thing.

But according to HMRC, I'm an employee and not a contractor (even though I provide my own work equipment) and therefore I can't deduct any of this from my income tax bill.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Now that working from home is established as the 'new normal' is it wrong for me to expect my employer to cover my broadband costs? They dont seem inclined to give us anything telling us that as we have it already there is no increased costs for us of using it for an additional 7 hours a day

They're right though. You did have it already and it doesn't cost you more. Your broadband was there when you were out at work.

Although this is true, the type of BB you need can increase with the amount of wfh you are doing, and the number of people doing it. Doing home learning with two children on teams calls and both adults on similar certainly tested the limits of our wifi speeds.

Hmm... so my original post provoked a range of responses, many negative, some positive.

The point I was driving at was that we now are effectively running branch offices of the company from home - but without any of the infrastructure that would be used to establish separate offices. Why should we have to shoulder the day to day costs of the company?

I signed a contract saying that I would work in a city centre office; now I am getting none of the benefits of this but have increased costs.

I am lucky that I have a spare room that I can turn into an office - but I didnt want to do so and if this situation carries on the company should compensate me in some way for using this space especially if it saves money by reducing the size of its offices. I use this space for work not for my own leisure use - it would be very hard for example in the future to still be working from home and have people to stay in the spare room.

In terms of direct costs - yes my broadband hasnt increased in cost but I have upgraded my package so that I can get a strong signal in the spare room.

My heating costs have gone up - previously the heating was off 8:30-5 whereas through the winter I have had it on for most of the day. That is not to mention the slightly increased costs of electricity due to using the computer and lights.

And yes I realise that tea and coffee at work are a perk but every job I have worked in I have had this perk. This is not to mention others such as croissants and pastries on Fridays, fruit etc available which make going to work more enjoyable and which all are worth another few pounds a week. Thats not to mention to the benefits of being able to do the odd photocopy/ print out tickets etc at work! These 'intangibles' along with the team work, gossip and general feeling to wellness are what makes work satisfying.

And then there are the other costs which people have mentioned- loo paper, water, general wear and tear etc which are only pennies. My point is that these are direct costs that we as individuals are having to shoulder to the company's benefit.

And as to the argument that I have reduced commuting time and cost I appreciate this is true for many but as I mentioned my costs or time used have not reduced - I still dress in the same clothes as I did before (vant show up on zoom look scruffy!) and my commute is a 10 minute saving each way. And the location was one of the reasons I moved to my current company.

Reflecting further I dont know how I would have coped had this happened 15 years ago when I was living in a flat share in London - I would have physically not had much capacity to do my job and my mental health would have suffered as my bedroom would have been my workplace and very cramped.

The expectation that we have the space, willingness and capacity to work from home takes a very blinkered view of peoples circumstances. I guess it might be considered discriminatory in that it would exclude many people who do not have a spare room/ dining room table or other area they can set aside for company business.

The point I was driving at was that we now are effectively running branch offices of the company from home - but without any of the infrastructure that would be used to establish separate offices. Why should we have to shoulder the day to day costs of the company?

I signed a contract saying that I would work in a city centre office; now I am getting none of the benefits of this but have increased costs.

You haven't said whether your employer is planning to resume office working.

Many employers are still incurring office rental costs and associated costs. You seem to think they should pay all of your increased costs as well?
Any payment they make over the tax free £6 would be taxable as well, so they'd have to figure out how much more they'd need to pay higher rate tax payers etc.

I think you're being a little bit U. If they have now old you your job is 100% home then maybe they can pass on the savings once the office lease ends?

I think you need to tread carefully before your wfh job is exported to someone in India or elsewhere who would be happy to be paid a fraction of what you cost.

@RedGoldAndGreene

I think you need to tread carefully before your wfh job is exported to someone in India or elsewhere who would be happy to be paid a fraction of what you cost.

When I was managing developers in India, we had to factor in power cuts ...

I'm waiting for HMRC to view WFH as a benefit in kind and whack tax on it.

I think in regards to gas and electricity usage OP does have a point. I've just checked my usage for the first 3 months of this year compared to the same time last year and mine has increased a lot. As I live very close to where I work my commuting costs were negligible so I'm def paying more to work from home

Many employers are still incurring office rental costs and associated costs. You seem to think they should pay all of your increased costs as well?

In short, yes. These are known as 'costs of doing business' ('CDB'). They're a recognised balance sheet items. They are distinct from travelling costs, or food costs, or clothing, and historically have almost always been borne by the business, not the people it employs.

Most of my business' fixed costs have stayed the same but we have seen a reduction of around 3% in total, by virtue of no-one being in the office. That's more than enough to pay for people's broadband, an chair that's not going to damage someone's back if sat in for 40 hours a week, etc. And the cost will be largely recovered in goodwill too.

@DGRossetti

I'm waiting for HMRC to view WFH as a benefit in kind and whack tax on it.

They already are doing that effectively for any payments over £6 a week of the type OP is seeking as they will be subject to tax.

@StarCourt

I think in regards to gas and electricity usage OP does have a point. I've just checked my usage for the first 3 months of this year compared to the same time last year and mine has increased a lot. As I live very close to where I work my commuting costs were negligible so I'm def paying more to work from home

This is fair enough. There will always be winners and losers. Some businesses will be able to pay for people's extra costs, some won't, and some will see an opportunity to shaft employees - same as ever.