‘Call at 8am for a GP appointment’

[purplepufferfish]

I work for the NHS and personally understand the stress that the service is under. I get it. But does this frustrate anyone else?

Call for a GP appointment. Get told that the nearest one is two weeks away and to call back the next day at 8am for a same day appointment.

Call back at 8am the next day, as is everyone else of course.

Finally get through at 10am to be told that the next appointment is two weeks away and to call back at 8am for a same day appointment!

Again I know that this is no one’s fault and I genuinely blame no one for this.

Am I being unreasonable for being frustrated?

I was pretty shocked when I moved to the U.K. that this was the norm then (20 years ago). And the fact that it was considered normal for sick people to start queuing from 7.30am in the morning to see a dr. Coming from Australia, where you pay for GP appointments but can always see one of your choice, it was a shock. But the U.K. seems to struggle moving from the ‘free at point of delivery’ concept and accept this as normal.

I usually tell my son to go down as (before covid anyway) you knew you could get in and just speak to a real human lady at the desk who could fix appointments. As we tend to drive down near there most days or did before covid and it is not far that is often the easier solution for my son. luckily I don't so far seem to get sick so don't seem to need a GP except once every 20 years or something!

i work for a GPs and i see the issues but i'm also not sure what the alternatives are, particularly at the moment when we can just booked F2F's all day like we used to.

if it is urgent on the day we we will always add people to a the triage list, but depending on the day of the week/luck we have no GP appts left by 12, sometime early as 9!

i work for a GPs and i see the issues but i'm also not sure what the alternatives are, particularly at the moment when we can just booked F2F's all day like we used to.

The solution is to do what other countries do. The patient calls at some point during your working hours and you give them an appointment for some time in the future. Either sooner, if it’s urgent, or later if it isn’t.

There, that wasn’t so difficult.

@makingmammaries

i work for a GPs and i see the issues but i'm also not sure what the alternatives are, particularly at the moment when we can just booked F2F's all day like we used to.

The solution is to do what other countries do. The patient calls at some point during your working hours and you give them an appointment for some time in the future. Either sooner, if it’s urgent, or later if it isn’t.

There, that wasn’t so difficult.

@makingmammaries

For how far into the future? If we release every single possible appointment on our calendar, we'll have booked say 2 months worth of appointments up within a week. Now we are stuck with a 2 month wait for anyone who calls permanently, instead of being to offer an appt within the week for (depending on the day) 90-100% of patients who ring.

Before lockdowns we would also release some at 1pm which did help for people who couldnt ring at 8am, but could at 1. Similarly, online bookings were practical and helpful for a lot of people but at the moment aren't.

I have just realised some of the numbers don't add up with what I'm saying there!! Over the past year things have been REALLY up and down with how easy/quick we can see people. Partly due to weird random rises and falls in calls that I'm sure someone could explain but I can't quite!

I should also add, by 12 we have nothing left for say Wed-Fri, but still a decent amount for Mon-Tues the next week, and calls drop off dramatically after that point.

Again I appreciate I work at one surgery, and have experience (as both patient or employee) of maybe 6.

For how far into the future? If we release every single possible appointment on our calendar, we'll have booked say 2 months worth of appointments up within a week.

Funny, isn’t it, that other countries don’t have that problem. If a GP in Western Europe tried that on, the patient would just get a new GP. Oh, wait... you can’t do that in the UK.

Two month wait? I could see any specialist under the sun within that time frame.

Seriously, something is very wrong with the NHS. It’s meant to be there to serve the people, not the reverse.

@makingmammaries

For how far into the future? If we release every single possible appointment on our calendar, we'll have booked say 2 months worth of appointments up within a week.

Funny, isn’t it, that other countries don’t have that problem. If a GP in Western Europe tried that on, the patient would just get a new GP. Oh, wait... you can’t do that in the UK.

Two month wait? I could see any specialist under the sun within that time frame.

Seriously, something is very wrong with the NHS. It’s meant to be there to serve the people, not the reverse.

@makingmammaries

I should clarify, at the moment our system works such that most people are being seen within the week, avoiding the 2 month wait that i agree would be awful - there is no 2 month wait for a routine GP appt where I work/have worked or have been a patient.

I completely agree. Having spoken to some of the older staff members things we much much better in the past, something over the past decade or so has drastically reduced resources made available to the NHS and I really do encourage anyone who's finding the services bad to speak their MPs about making change at a wider level!

@makingmammaries you also can register with a new GP if you wish in the UK. I appreciate someone in a more rural or remote areas may struggle with that, however those surgeries tend not to have such high demands as places with denser population. Or is the issue that it would still be NHS?

Or is the issue that it would still be NHS?

I suppose that is a large part of the issue - the bar has just been set appallingly low in recent years and the public somehow made to believe it should be grateful for anything it gets. But then there are the catchment area rules in the UK, which aren’t an issue elsewhere. I can, and do, have a GP across the border. They won’t do a home visit, but can coordinate to arrange e.g. nurses to visit if needed.

@makingmammaries

While I do think you were maybe being a bit too harsh I can agree with a lot of what you're saying (that said I've not lived in Western Europe! Maybe I'd do a 180 if I had!)

I love the NHS and what it SHOULD be and it breaks my heart that our government doesn't care enough about it's people to facilitate that.

It's completely infuriating. Our GP is the same. Even pre-pandemic. Ring at 8am. Queue of OAPs at the door usually get the majority of appointments whilst commuting/working/childcaring folk struggle to get through on the phone (I don't blame them - it's the only way to get an appointment!!)

I had a lump in my breast a couple of years ago. I had to ring 27 times between 8 and 8:15am before I got to speak to a human (it cuts you off after a while so I kept phoning using both mobile and house phone). All the while kids creating havoc. Eventually spoke to receptionist 'trained in triage'. She decided on a telephone appointment. Spoke to the GP who said I'd best come down to the surgery to be examined (no shit, Sherlock )

And then they wonder why A&E is full to bursting. I love the NHS, don't get me wrong, but there has to be a better way.

[quote greennugget]@makingmammaries you also can register with a new GP if you wish in the UK. I appreciate someone in a more rural or remote areas may struggle with that, however those surgeries tend not to have such high demands as places with denser population. Or is the issue that it would still be NHS?[/quote]
I live somewhere rural. Most surgeries in my county have now been closed and, the catchment areas are very specific for each remaining surgery so no option to change, every remaining surgery has openings for multiple GPs and have for many years.

No one wants to take on working rurally as theres so much work to do with the local hospital having been completely downgraded in recent years (pre covid) and everything centralised in South Wales with patients expected to simply drive, get a bus or a taxi for any appointments, yes even in emergencies (after phoning to book an appointment).

My dog gets better healthcare than the NHS provides, cheaper too.

Our surgery was like this til about 18 months ago, when they introduced the econsult facility, which is great. I can fill in a form on the website with the details of my problem, and I get a phone appointment the following day (or sometimes the same day). They can then invite me in later that day if they think I need to be physically seen, or sort out a referral/prescription if it's easily sorted over the phone. If they invite you in its always later on in the day, so most people would either be after work or need to take a small amount of time off at the end of the day.

I can't believe how much more efficient it is than having to phone at 8am.

We can also (in normal times) book appointments for ongoing conditions on the booking system ourselves. That's not for same day appointments though, that's for routine things to check on chronic conditions (I use it for my diabetic blood tests and reviews)

Our rural surgery is very difficult to access a GP from. Current wait is around 3 to 4 weeks for a telephone consultation. They've got too many patients and not enough GP's. And there isn't another surgery in the area that covers our postcode, so we're stuffed.

We use a private GP service for anything that needs urgent attention which is right by where we work, but they won't cover ongoing issues which is annoying. When you've got a raging UTI or an infected insect bite going into cellulitis as I've had in the last 12 months, you don't want to wait 2 days to be triaged.

My GP’s do this. However I discovered they also do hub appointments whereby a doctor who isn’t attached to your surgery calls you in the afternoon. It’s not advertised as a service though.

It is going to get worse - a recent survey showed that one in six GP’s planned on leaving the profession (my DH is leaving and they haven’t found a replacement for him) and the government’s target on GP recruitment has achieved nowhere near the numbers required.

Pre Covid, our GPs offered a walk in clinic each morning where you could be seen for 1 thing. This was a good system alongside the book in advance for routine appointments (at one point the wait for these was often 3 weeks).
Currently, they are using econsult. I completed the online form one weekend, had a call back on the Monday morning and saw a GP on the Tuesday. I think this is triaged and they have to respond within 2 working days.
Ours have a duty doctor or two each day so they will be available but I have no idea how the same day works in practise!

Stressful yes. My gp is good but one phone line could be ages getting through. To be fair she will fit you in if urgent. But agree with you all its stressful no apts

At our GPs we have a choice of a 6 week wait or the same day telephone appointment even if it is something you can't do over the phone. Then they give you an in person appointment weeks away.

My 1yo needed wound care following an A&E visit. Clearly something which can't be provided via telephone and the hospital had emailed to let the surgery know a nurse would be needed for wound care on several occasions in xyz days time. They said no it was telephone only and we'd have to go to A&E for all follow up care. I phoned A&E and the lovely doctor phoned the GP and read them the riot act. We got an appointment that day. It shouldn't have wasted the doctors time. And the surgery shouldn't be shipping patients off to A&E when it is unnecessary.

I also deal with 2 other surgeries on behalf of the residents in the care home. I have a good relationship with their doctors but the receptionists are terrible. They're rude to my staff and God forbid an elderly resident has an issue past 11am. One resident had a funny turn and we requested a GP visit and pre-emptive medication to be prescribed. If a resident passes away they need to have seen a GP within the past 2 weeks and obviously we need the pre-emptive medication in the building as district nurses/Marie Curie don't carry it. The receptionist said no. I explained this meant they could possibly die in pain/agitated etc of we didn't have the medication. She still said no so I phoned the practice manager and we got a home visit within the hour.

I often think that receptionists like that are on a sad power trip. Controlling who gets seen etc. Why should they be deciding who gets end of life medication? And their communication skills are often terrible. There are good ones but in my professional and personal experience the bad outweigh the good.

There is another question then: given the dramatic shortage of gps, why is it so hard for well qualified youngsters to get a medical school place.

Even if they aren’t all ideally suited to complex medicine, seeing a good-enough gp in a timely manner should be a fundamental thing we can all do. Gate keeping to this extent is surely harming our medical service

Our online booking is suspended which is fine but the call at 8 is a nightmare. Also my weekly meds were missing an item, no problem , i walk the 50m from chemist to gp to fix it. I get told to call them, i was like can u not just check, no call us please (i was standing outside) talking to them on the phone. They then get rude when i ask for the script to get my meds, bringing on a panic attack. Absolute joke

Qualifications needed to be a GP. (DH didn’t do it this way as he is dual qualified in U.K. and Canada and already had his medical degree when he came to the U.K.)

a 5-year degree in medicine, recognised by the General Medical Council; and
a 2-year foundation course of general training; and
a 3-year specialist training course in general practice

@MinesAPintOfTea

There is another question then: given the dramatic shortage of gps, why is it so hard for well qualified youngsters to get a medical school place.

Even if they aren’t all ideally suited to complex medicine, seeing a good-enough gp in a timely manner should be a fundamental thing we can all do. Gate keeping to this extent is surely harming our medical service

I think that’s very much minimising the knowledge that GPs need. They have to have a basic level of understanding of a very wide range of illnesses whereas specialists will at the point of specialising focus on that one area.