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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who don't look

29 replies

DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 12:37

Just cycled around town to do my shopping and other errands and twice had to slam on my brakes (from a not particularly high speed - 10-15mph) because men walked across the road without looking first. I don't mean "looked and failed to see", they just walked out with eyes front, not so much as a glance down the road to see if anything was coming. In this age where more and more cars are electric, one really cannot rely on being able to hear a vehicle approach.

This is on top of the frequently observed motorists (of both sexes) who pull out of junctions without looking in both directions.

Have

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 12:38

...people lost the use of their eyes?

Posted too soon.

OP posts:
Ginuwine · 15/03/2021 13:58

This is something I experience daily, and both sexes not just men.

There's a culture where folk expect you, the motorist, to stop at any juncture or point in time - not for the pedestrian to time their walk at the safest point.

Worse, at roundabouts I've had people of both sexes pull out in front of me regardless of right of way and my exit being clear at the time, just because they expect me to brake suddenly and ensure they can zip through as that was their intent.

In both scenarios it's an "I'll push out first, then you react as I'm more important" philosophy. No one wants to be the one waiting.

Gooo · 15/03/2021 14:04

Just run them over.

BlackberrySky · 15/03/2021 14:07

YANBU in your observation of pedestrians stepping out into the road without looking but YABU making it into a gender issue.

BestOption · 15/03/2021 14:12

Bloody annoying & dangerous!!

I bought a loud kids bell which I employ with great pleasure! Or a very loud 'oiiii'

AllesAusLiebe · 15/03/2021 14:36

YANBU, op. As a previous post referred, this is definitely a cultural phenomenon that has been slowly getting worse over the last few years, I've noticed.

I don't automatically stop if a pedestrian nonchalantly wanders out in front of my car/bicycle. I keep going. Not because I'm an asshole who revels in the idea of causing injury to people on foot, because I realise how dangerous it is for me to have to slam my brakes on without having the time to check the response from any vehicles behind me.

It seems that some people have no perception of how dangerous their behaviour is, or simply don't care if they put road users at risk.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/03/2021 14:38

I must admit I’m too reliant on my ears when crossing roads.

But it is rubbish being a pedestrian. For example, there’s no pedestrian phase on many traffic lights, they just light the green man for each lane when no traffic is flowing. On a complex junction this can put a lot of time on the pedestrian’s journey. At a particularly complex junction near us , a diagonal crossing using the green man takes 6 minutes. Four junctions on a mile journey can turn it from 20 mins to 35mins.

Ginuwine · 15/03/2021 14:50

@AllesAusLiebe

YANBU, op. As a previous post referred, this is definitely a cultural phenomenon that has been slowly getting worse over the last few years, I've noticed.

I don't automatically stop if a pedestrian nonchalantly wanders out in front of my car/bicycle. I keep going. Not because I'm an asshole who revels in the idea of causing injury to people on foot, because I realise how dangerous it is for me to have to slam my brakes on without having the time to check the response from any vehicles behind me.

It seems that some people have no perception of how dangerous their behaviour is, or simply don't care if they put road users at risk.

I don't blame you but in a motor vehicle this is also tantamount to horrible consequences.

One person who nearly ended up on the bonnet of my car (they turned on a sixpence and started to walk across a busy London road in one motion) swore and gestured at me when challenged. Her whole viewpoint was "f you, you're in the big motor vehicle, I'm the vulnerable one".

People are using power dynamics as a way of passing on the responsibility to others

peak2021 · 15/03/2021 15:10

Not a defence, but I wonder if during the first period of restrictions people got used to very little traffic.

DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 15:46

@BlackberrySky

YANBU in your observation of pedestrians stepping out into the road without looking but YABU making it into a gender issue.
It just so happened that today's kamikaze pedestrians were male. Obviously I haven't done a stratified study.

I wonder how telling the reactions were though - the one in his '60s said "oh, sorry", the one in his '30s got aggressive.

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 15:50

@MereDintofPandiculation

I must admit I’m too reliant on my ears when crossing roads.

But it is rubbish being a pedestrian. For example, there’s no pedestrian phase on many traffic lights, they just light the green man for each lane when no traffic is flowing. On a complex junction this can put a lot of time on the pedestrian’s journey. At a particularly complex junction near us , a diagonal crossing using the green man takes 6 minutes. Four junctions on a mile journey can turn it from 20 mins to 35mins.

I agree that pedestrian crossings in many areas need improvement. This however was a side street where there isn't enough traffic to make finding a gap difficult.
OP posts:
rosiejaune · 15/03/2021 17:19

Anyone who is a motorist and thinks along these lines is BVU because they are poisoning people's air, taking up public space (both while driving and when parked), causing noise pollution, and exacerbating climate change. And they still want priority for road use over those not committing such harms?!

It's victim blaming; people should be able to walk anywhere safely, since that's how humans evolved to locomote. If someone is making a choice for their personal convenience that interferes with that and harms others, they are the one responsible for the results.

Our society has only relied on cars so heavily for the last few decades, and it has to stop. In mainland Europe, drivers are automatically considered more liable for an RTI regardless of whose "fault" it is, precisely because of their greater capacity to cause harm.

This is taken from the proposals for an update to the Highway Code:

"introducing a hierarchy of road users which ensures that those road users who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others

clarifying existing rules on pedestrian priority on pavements, to advise that drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross the road,"

Though they should already be looking out for people crossing unexpectedly anyway.

You are being less unreasonable because you are a cyclist, not a motorist. But you are still the one who is most likely to cause harm in a collision (higher momentum) with a pedestrian, potentially even kill someone (though much rarer in the case of bikes). And bikes are less noticeable than cars, being smaller and quieter.

Why should people doing exactly what people have always done have to think about oncoming missiles every time they move around? And have their neighbourhoods divided up every few metres by roads? We didn't evolve with those threats. Public space should be arranged around the needs of pedestrians (and wheelchair users).

BrumBoo · 15/03/2021 17:24

Yanbu. Had one twit do this to me the other day - the thing is he was stood at a pedestrian crossing! All he had to do was press a button and wait 30 seconds, but no. He walked all the way to the traffic lights then straight out into the road like that's how it works Hmm.

LApprentiSorcier · 15/03/2021 17:47

@rosiejaune

Anyone who is a motorist and thinks along these lines is BVU because they are poisoning people's air, taking up public space (both while driving and when parked), causing noise pollution, and exacerbating climate change. And they still want priority for road use over those not committing such harms?!

It's victim blaming; people should be able to walk anywhere safely, since that's how humans evolved to locomote. If someone is making a choice for their personal convenience that interferes with that and harms others, they are the one responsible for the results.

Our society has only relied on cars so heavily for the last few decades, and it has to stop. In mainland Europe, drivers are automatically considered more liable for an RTI regardless of whose "fault" it is, precisely because of their greater capacity to cause harm.

This is taken from the proposals for an update to the Highway Code:

"introducing a hierarchy of road users which ensures that those road users who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others

clarifying existing rules on pedestrian priority on pavements, to advise that drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross the road,"

Though they should already be looking out for people crossing unexpectedly anyway.

You are being less unreasonable because you are a cyclist, not a motorist. But you are still the one who is most likely to cause harm in a collision (higher momentum) with a pedestrian, potentially even kill someone (though much rarer in the case of bikes). And bikes are less noticeable than cars, being smaller and quieter.

Why should people doing exactly what people have always done have to think about oncoming missiles every time they move around? And have their neighbourhoods divided up every few metres by roads? We didn't evolve with those threats. Public space should be arranged around the needs of pedestrians (and wheelchair users).

Well said.
BlackeyedSusan · 15/03/2021 17:59

Inertia stupid.... Laws of physics, a big heavy thing is harder to stop...

People can keep not thinking about it right up to that point their brain is damaged on a windscreen because a car/can/bus can't stop.

DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 18:00

@rosiejaune we've been teaching kids to look both ways before crossing for 50 years now, we've had proper roads for nigh-on 2000 years. It's hardly an inconvenience to take some responsibility for our own safety and turn our heads left and right before crossing and continuing to check while crossing.

Of course I cycle responsibly (I said that I slammed my brakes on) but remember that in UK law there is no presumed liability so the pedestrian is just as responsible for looking both ways as I am for reacting to hazards. It's not victim blaming at all to ask people to complete a simple task, drummed into them from childhood, and which in no way impedes on their freedom to walk anywhere.

Your evolution argument is ludicrous too. If early humans hadn't taken care to watch out for predators, we wouldn't be here today.

OP posts:
woodhill · 15/03/2021 18:01

Have you noticed how pedestrian crossings no longer beep as you cross or maybe it's just where I am

DdraigGoch · 15/03/2021 18:06

@woodhill

Have you noticed how pedestrian crossings no longer beep as you cross or maybe it's just where I am
If two crossings are close to each other, they won't beep incase visually impaired people step out when the wrong one goes off. This is why there's a cone-shaped spinny thing underneath the button.
OP posts:
Macncheeseballs · 15/03/2021 18:06

Rosiejaune, it's the ones wearing headphones, looking down at their phones, that step out infront of my bike that are the hardest to deal with, I've never hit one yet, but surely we should all share the space sensibly.

OscarWildesCat · 15/03/2021 19:33

I see this daily, I drive an electric car and frequently have people walk out in front of me in car parks and continue to amble up the middle of the road, oblivious that I’m behind them. I’m patient of course but amazed that some people don’t look at all and rely on hearing an engine.

Paquerette · 15/03/2021 19:51

@BlackeyedSusan

Inertia stupid.... Laws of physics, a big heavy thing is harder to stop...

People can keep not thinking about it right up to that point their brain is damaged on a windscreen because a car/can/bus can't stop.

This.

The stopping distance of a car at 20 mph is 12 m/40 feet.

Where I live people frequently just step off the curb to cross a side street without stopping to check if traffic from either direction of the main road is already turning into the side street. The pedestrian should stop at the curb and look both directions to check if it's safe to cross first.

TenaciousOnePointOne · 15/03/2021 19:57

@rosiejaune

Anyone who is a motorist and thinks along these lines is BVU because they are poisoning people's air, taking up public space (both while driving and when parked), causing noise pollution, and exacerbating climate change. And they still want priority for road use over those not committing such harms?!

It's victim blaming; people should be able to walk anywhere safely, since that's how humans evolved to locomote. If someone is making a choice for their personal convenience that interferes with that and harms others, they are the one responsible for the results.

Our society has only relied on cars so heavily for the last few decades, and it has to stop. In mainland Europe, drivers are automatically considered more liable for an RTI regardless of whose "fault" it is, precisely because of their greater capacity to cause harm.

This is taken from the proposals for an update to the Highway Code:

"introducing a hierarchy of road users which ensures that those road users who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others

clarifying existing rules on pedestrian priority on pavements, to advise that drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross the road,"

Though they should already be looking out for people crossing unexpectedly anyway.

You are being less unreasonable because you are a cyclist, not a motorist. But you are still the one who is most likely to cause harm in a collision (higher momentum) with a pedestrian, potentially even kill someone (though much rarer in the case of bikes). And bikes are less noticeable than cars, being smaller and quieter.

Why should people doing exactly what people have always done have to think about oncoming missiles every time they move around? And have their neighbourhoods divided up every few metres by roads? We didn't evolve with those threats. Public space should be arranged around the needs of pedestrians (and wheelchair users).

This is flawed, although I do agree with what you said on the whole. Many motorists insist on driving at the upper speed limit of a road and beyond even if it is not safe to do so. A road I once lived on was a 30mph road but with cars parked you couldn’t drive two cars past each other and was a residential road. There was never a time 30mph was safe on that road but you’d often find yourself head to head with an idiot who decided it was and of course they couldn’t reverse either.

Today as we were approaching a zebra crossing a driver was easily exceeding the 30mph limit (as they often do where I live now) and went straight through the crossing even though we were just about to step on to it.

On the flip side on the first road I mentioned it was almost impossible to keep an eye on everywhere a person could come out from even when driving under 20mph and an adult with a pram came out of nowhere between two cars. Both pedestrians and motorists have a duty to be aware and if a pedestrian starts to cross 50-100yards away I have plenty of time to slow down and it all be ok. If they cross at my bonnet then I’m going to be angry as it’s bloody scary, I don’t want to kill anyone.

Mypathtriedtokillme · 15/03/2021 20:00

I have a bigger issue with cars that just pull out of driveways at speed without checking for pedestrians.
Cars park so close to the curb and are now higher and larger that it’s impossible to check if cars are coming without stepping onto the road.

Electric cars can be hard to hear.

TheBigGreenDinosaur · 15/03/2021 20:05

YANBU op. When I used to commute into the office (those were the days!) I had to drive through an area that had a lot of solicitors offices and chambers, and the number of men with briefcases that used to step into the road without looking was unbelievable! It’s almost like they think, they are so successful that nothing as common as a car accident could possibly happen to them, and clearly they are in a hurry so it’s up to me to stop for them! Used to get me so wound up, just in time for a day in the office Grin

flexx · 15/03/2021 20:11

I had to change my route to work to avoid my town centre because of the number of people who stepped in front of me every day - it was literally 1 or 2 at least every day. My dad refused to drive there as he was terrified of hitting someone. They look as they step off the kerb, expecting that whatever is on the road will be further out than where they have stepped to. It was only a matter of time before I hit someone or braked really sharply and fell off in front of a car or something.

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