Who's correct - me or my teens

[shedragon]

I'm not sure this is the right forum, but I couldn't find one for 'political correctness.
We had a discussion at dinner the other night. Throat singing came up. I don't know much about it but I find it to be a strange sound, and I expressed that opinion. The teens (15 and 13) looked at me in horror. They said I cannot say that because it's disrespectful to the indigenous communities that sing this way. I was EH?? I questioned them and it all blew up into this heated discussion about how could I not know this was disrespectful etc etc

Was I disrespectful or is is reasonable to express that opinion?

I'm feeling the generation gap..

@shedragon

crosspost with Haydugi.

In a calm moment I might have a (shriek) discussion with the kids about reading the room a bit.

Umm..I dont think this is a good idea. Sounds like both sides just double downed on their view without listening and 'didn't read the room'. So fault on both sides...but the difference is that you're the adult. This discussion sounds like it would come across as you lecturing them on their lack of perception whilst you displayed the exact same behaviour. I think that would send the message from their perspective that you are unreasonable and they are best not discussing things with you which I dont think is the message you want to send, but may be the one a teenager would pick up from this. Sounds like instead you have the opportunity to have open discussions with your teens in a healthy way if you play this right.....whcih si the dream right?

Thanks coldemort for your words of support!

SOmeone mentioned throat singing. I said 'it's a strange sound isn't it?'
Cue 2 shocked faces.
'You can't say that'.
'Say what'
'Call it strange, that's disrespectful' etc etc
'But to me it's an unusual sound, I'm not used to it and I'm not sure I like it. Why can't I say that'
Cue uproar.

So what followed was the discussion on why I can't/shouldn't say strange and I and DH asking for explanation etc. H said but can I say I find rap music strange. Apparently that's not so bad. Then they clinbed up on their moral high horses and galloped off into their woke-land (no offence meant). Leaving me and H somewhat baffled.

I had a friend who once said ‘isn’t it strange how they talk in Africa with all that clicking’ after watching something on TV with a man speaking Zulu.

She didn’t mean anything by it, but of course firstly, Zulu is one of thousands of African languages, the majority of which don’t actually have clicking sounds. She reduced thousands of African cultures into one ‘they’. Like saying ‘isn’t it weird how they speak in Europe’. Who exactly? The French? Spanish?

Secondly, it was strange to her, but only because it was different to what she was used to. She was used to viewing her experience of the world as the ‘normal’ one and their language as ‘strange’ because it was so different to hers. Historically (and currently) this has been problematic, because of how white people have had a tendency to think of ourselves as ‘normal’ and people from other places as different (or ‘other’) because ours is the dominant culture in the West. When in reality, we’re all of us as normal and as different as each other. The view of English/European/American culture as the ‘normal baseline’ of behaviour tends to cause issues when it is subconsciously assumed, especially for people who do not meet the criteria in certain ways.

She didn’t mean or even think about any of this when she said it.

If the exchange went exactly as you described OP, I’m inclined to think they overreacted. Again though, would have needed to hear the conversation.

LilMidge, that's not quite the way it was. I said 'strange' and I asked for clarification, in a genuine please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. They were annoyed that I didn't know what I said was wrong. From my perspective, and H felt the same, it was a reasonable possible learning experience for us. The kids thought we were completely unreasonable for not knowing and did not want to explain. That's why I'm here - wondering were we completely unreasonable for not knowing.

Best not mention yodeling or Northern clog dancing.

It's a minefield out there.

And what about Demis Roussos?

Thanks greatauntfanny. That's a great explanation. I think I get where they were coming from when I read your post. I think.
It's funny, because we often have chats, particularly with the 13 yo about accents, and how everyone thinks their accent is the baseline, to the point where tehy think they don't have an accent.

The throat singing story at a dinner party is cringeworthy.

Wtf .. using the word ‘strange’ is inappropriate! F£)k my life .. what next?

Strange / odd / different

Jeez mahn!

@TwoLeftSocksWithHoles

Best not mention yodeling or Northern clog dancing.

It's a minefield out there.

And what about Demis Roussos?

I agree clog dancing in a minefield is not advisable.

‘Strange’ isn’t a derogatory term. Usually it just means something unfamiliar.
Maybe your teens need to look up the meaning, OP.

You used word ‘strange’ correctly, that is as in a novel or unfamiliar experience. The word has become synonymous with ‘weird’ or ‘uncanny’ now, and it sounds as if your kids need a thesaurus.

Does it matter if Op used the word strange?? It's just a word and used to describe something that is unfamiliar. It's not offensive at all. People being constantly offended is just exhausting.

This pc think is being overblown to the point of stupidity. And it's more harmful than the actual comments it was originally supposed to be against.

We had similar discussions with teen (not on throat singing as I love that too - try listening to The Hu :))
and I clearly stated that I have a right to my opinion as long as it's not hurting anyone. And saying whatever in our kitchen is not going to hurt anyone.
Even saying "strange" to their faces is not hurting. It's just an opinion.

I was a bit withered after the discussion I have to say. I thought I was v patient with them . They were not so patient with us. Although, their opinion would probably be different, with the level of outrage.

I don’t think you said anything wrong either

I remember similar ructions with my older teen a couple of years ago when I said I wasn’t a fan while talking about Stormzy.

I didn’t say he was rubbish, or I thought his music was shit or anything like that - just that I wasn’t a fan.

DD well and truly got on her high horse and told me I couldn’t say that as it was racist, I couldn’t get a word in edgeways.

A couple of years on and you can actually have a sensible debate with her about stuff like this

I think it’s a bit inappropriate to describe it as strange just because it’s not something you’re familiar with

Literally the definition of strange.

OP you need to teach your teens that their wokeness is disrespectful, as is telling you're not allowed an opinion.

Yes the definition of strange is something you've not encountered before. But if someone called you or the way you look or your house or something 'strange' I think most people would think it was a bit offensive. For example if my toddler went up to someone in the street and said 'you're strange' or we were in the supermarket and she said 'look at that strange lady' I'd tell them it was rude, and it feels more so than just generally talking about someone (eg compared to 'look at that beautiful lady'). I think it's fine to have an opinion but describing a cultural practice as 'strange' does kind of 'other' people. It's an interesting topic though and I don't think anyone is really wrong in how they look at it, it probably boils down to how you view the intent of the word strange

If you had said "I think its a strange thing for people to do", or something similar think that would be offensive, but you said you thought it was a strange sound. Surely that's like people saying that the bagpipes are a strange sound, or yodelling. Not offensive to say the sound is strange.

I think it's fine to have an opinion but describing a cultural practice as 'strange' does kind of 'other' people

And? The implication being that othering is not ok, even though its an entirely normal and intrinsic way the human mind works. People who are very different to you are other than you. That's ok, it's not a negative.

Stop taking normal things and woking all over them to make literally everything offensive. It must be exhausting to be so bothered all the time by everything.

OP you need to teach your teens that their wokeness is disrespectful, as is telling you're not allowed an opinion.

I like this. Thank you.

I also look forward to when I can have a reasonable discussion @Springersrock

If my teens had my way i would not be able to speak at all

@shedragon

LilMidge, that's not quite the way it was. I said 'strange' and I asked for clarification, in a genuine please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. They were annoyed that I didn't know what I said was wrong. From my perspective, and H felt the same, it was a reasonable possible learning experience for us. The kids thought we were completely unreasonable for not knowing and did not want to explain. That's why I'm here - wondering were we completely unreasonable for not knowing.

I don't think it's that they don't want to explain, more they can't explain.

They’re victims of the woke generation. This is your opportunity to teach them how to live in the real world and not be offended by every little thing.

I do worry that many of the younger generation are going to have miserable and exhausting lives if they spend them being falsely offended on behalf of other people.

Fair point @Iminaglasscaseofemotion. That’s probably it. Hopefully a few more years growth will settle that