Singing in foreign language

[MizMoonshine]

Watching Moana (for the 129373948300385th time) with subtitles. Whenever there's a song in English, the subtitles display the lyrics, whenever it's not English it just says "singing in foreign language".

AIBU to think that Disney obviously has access to the lyrics and it's somewhat disrespectful to just slap up "foreign language".

I was also watching a show about castles not long ago and the subtitles popped up with "foreign language" when someone was speaking Welsh. I, a Welsh person, was a bit pissed. Would have been happy if it said "speaking Welsh" or have the translation if they couldn't justify putting up the actual wording.

Disney has tried to represent a culture fairly but the work just feels undermined by this one thing.

YABU - Get over it, Disney can't be expected to have accurate subtitles for every language.

YANBU - They have access to the script, they should be respectful of the language they're using.

I, a Welsh person, was a bit pissed
Why were you drunk?

Yes, this really annoys me - same sometimes with speech segments. I've sometimes put the subtitles on in the hope of finding either a translation or the foreign words verbatim (if the latter, depending on the language, I might be able to translate it myself with the aid of a dictionary). Why wouldn't they do this?

@LApprentiSorcier

Yes, this really annoys me - same sometimes with speech segments. I've sometimes put the subtitles on in the hope of finding either a translation or the foreign words verbatim (if the latter, depending on the language, I might be able to translate it myself with the aid of a dictionary). Why wouldn't they do this?

I really don't understand. With live programs where the subtitles are being updated as it happens, I fully get it. But scripted shows and particularly movies, it's just lazy and disrespectful.

I'll sign a petition. That is very lazy.

I wonder if it is to replicate the experience that an English speaking watcher would have without the subtitles. What I mean is the person who watches it without subtitles will more than likely not know what the person speaking the other language is saying and the person who made the film doesn’t expect them to know. The vast majority will hear “singing in a foreign language”.
I watch a lot of subtitled foreign language dramas, and because they subtitle everything, you don’t get that nuance when someone is speaking Russian not German, or Danish not Swedish, for example. That’s a bit different though I guess, as they do have to subtitle it - but it would help if it could be marked “this guy is speaking in Russian.”

Very lazy and not good business.

@DynamoKev

I, a Welsh person, was a bit pissed Why were you drunk?

Pissed is another word for annoyed/angry

Tbh this has never occurred to me, but I am English and don’t speak another language..

I can see why it would annoy others though

Only way “speaking in foreign language” would be acceptable would be if they used a made up language like Klingon or Na’vi

I saw a thread on this recently on another forum. A woman answered who works in doing these subtitles. The work is subcontracted out to agencies that pay the workers by per minute of shows/movies subtitled. She said that if she hears a language and knows what it is she would either send it to one of her colleagues who she knows speaks the language or mark it down as "Speaking Spanish" but only if she is 100% confident on it. If its something she doesn't recognise then it just gets marked down as "Speaking foreign language" as its better to do that than label someone speaking Welsh as Gaelic etc. If she spends 25 mins on a 30-second bit working out what the language is and getting how to spell the words correctly that is time she isn't getting paid for and is now behind on quota's.

@SnowyBranches

I wonder if it is to replicate the experience that an English speaking watcher would have without the subtitles. What I mean is the person who watches it without subtitles will more than likely not know what the person speaking the other language is saying and the person who made the film doesn’t expect them to know. The vast majority will hear “singing in a foreign language”. I watch a lot of subtitled foreign language dramas, and because they subtitle everything, you don’t get that nuance when someone is speaking Russian not German, or Danish not Swedish, for example. That’s a bit different though I guess, as they do have to subtitle it - but it would help if it could be marked “this guy is speaking in Russian.”

Simply "Speaking X language" would be sufficient if they really want to avoid using the words to keep the experience consistent. However, someone listening to the song could translate the words. The person relying on subtitles wouldn't be able to because they've got no access to the words.

@Ijustdontcare

I saw a thread on this recently on another forum. A woman answered who works in doing these subtitles. The work is subcontracted out to agencies that pay the workers by per minute of shows/movies subtitled. She said that if she hears a language and knows what it is she would either send it to one of her colleagues who she knows speaks the language or mark it down as "Speaking Spanish" but only if she is 100% confident on it. If its something she doesn't recognise then it just gets marked down as "Speaking foreign language" as its better to do that than label someone speaking Welsh as Gaelic etc. If she spends 25 mins on a 30-second bit working out what the language is and getting how to spell the words correctly that is time she isn't getting paid for and is now behind on quota's.

That makes sense for TV shows, I guess. But for Disney it's a bit ridiculous.

I think in something like Moana is because the words aren't important, it's just a song and for a fully hearing audience they wouldn't get a translation either. Obv of you're dead or hard of hearing it's not the same but the point is you need to know she's just singing a song not that the song is about a spider for example.

Have you got a smart phone? Have you tried the "recognise a song* thing on it?

When songs are translated (to be sung) across languages, the lyrics are changed quite a lot. I read ages ago that feedback from focus groups was that a direct translation in subtitles lost the feel of the song, as there were no rhymes etc, it feels more like a poorly put together abstract poem. It's one of those things that theres no ideal solution for tbh. Direct translation is clunky, rewriting the song in multiple languages so that it keeps its meaning but stays 'songlike' is costly.

Also agree that calling Welsh a foreign language is just wrong.

k-international.com/blog/the-languages-of-moana/

YABU for encouraging Disney in the first place.

@Devlesko

YABU for encouraging Disney in the first place.

Oh give over

We love Disney in this house hold

No accounting for taste
They give out some awful messages.

I have sometimes wondered what they do for that bit in Toy Story when Buzz goes Spanish when they translate into other languages (especially Spanish)

@Devlesko

No accounting for taste They give out some awful messages.

What awful message does. Moana give out?

@TeenMinusTests

I have sometimes wondered what they do for that bit in Toy Story when Buzz goes Spanish when they translate into other languages (especially Spanish)

I have Toy Story in French. He still speaks Spanish in this part. I also wondered what happens in the Spanish edition. As it would make sense if he spoke English / French / German as he also does the flamenco dancing etc. as a nod to the Hispanic culture.

I get that the idea is to understand the prespective of the narrator who doesn't speak the language. If you understand the language, well... that's not the idea of the director

@Devlesko

YABU for encouraging Disney in the first place.

Why? Would love to know what you recommend as a superior parent.

I'll make an exception for Moana. It would be nice to know what they are singing.

I meant as in a foreign person speaking in a movie and the main actor is supposed to not understand what they're saying. Writing it in the subtitles would defeat that idea (considering subtitles for people who can't hear or speak the language of the movie)

@SleepingStandingUp

I think in something like Moana is because the words aren't important, it's just a song and for a fully hearing audience they wouldn't get a translation either. Obv of you're dead or hard of hearing it's not the same but the point is you need to know she's just singing a song not that the song is about a spider for example.

Have you got a smart phone? Have you tried the "recognise a song* thing on it?

The Samoan lyrics you hear throughout Moana are actually really important to the storyline of Moana. For example in the scene where Moana's giving Te Ka/Te Fiti her heart back the Samoan lyrics speak of how Brave and Pure-Hearted Moana is.

It's also important to remember that captioning videos is a long and difficult job 🤷🏻‍♀️

www.opetaiafoai.com/we-know-the-way.html# If you want to know the lyrics from ´We Know the Way’. It’s two different polynesian languages, Tokelauan and Samoan, which would make things more difficult for the subtitle transcibers.