AIBU to ask what you would do next year...secondary school nightmare admissions issue

[Postcardsfromstress]

Namechanged for this, for various reasons.

We've just learnt that 50 families a stone's throw from our two local schools didn't get secondary school places this year. The catchment is huge, not enough (good) schools. These two schools reneged on an extra bulge class, as they don't feel they have the communal facilities (toilets, corridors etc) to accommodate more children. They've said this is the case the coming academic year too - but hoping admission figures fall as of 23/24. Until then, there's every chance you'll be sent on a bus/es to not great schools quite far away.

This is going to affect us as we will apply to go for next September.

I feel like that's a lot of families locally who got affected, and there's every chance it could be us.

So, I need to be strategic and think about what we can do - if anything? Move? consider private? Sit back, let's see what's coming to us.

I guess my post is as much for thoughts about what other people would do...whilst I think on our strategy

@ChildOfFriday

Haha, I wouldn't have noticed the raffle prizes! I don't work with school admissions, I'm just someone who has a bit of a strange obsession with them, so I'm very jealous of your job! I'm not sure exactly when the equal preference system became law across England (I think around 10 years ago, but one of the experts may well correct me on that), but in the LEA where I grew up in it came in when I was applying to secondary school in 2003, so it's been around for quite a while

That is definitely an unusual hobby!

It's a lot more challenging than it would appear on the surface. But at the same time, it's incredibly simple and relatively secure/in demand all over the country, which is very appealing to me, as it means I've got a very good chance of finding a job anywhere in the country at any given time (and if it's any time after late October and they're advertising, you know they really, really want you - get to January and they're advertising, they will throw money at you because they are panicking).

@Postcardsfromstress I am in Brighton and well versed with your situation.

Firstly, I know the projections are that DS/V will be oversubscribed for the next two years. Do you know the same for Patcham? I would investigate this as it would make sense for it to be your third option, and a school you might feel more comfortable with than BACA or LH.

Having said that, BACA is improving, and the journey isn't too bad as buses go these from Fiveways and St Peters areas. Not so much for LH.

I would also say that while DS/V are much lauded, and I totally get the wanting to go to school with peers thing (and most children will be going to one of these two), from personal experience of both schools, they really aren't all they are cracked up to be. They are too big, kids get lost in them, poor pastoral care, and they get good results because of the cohort, not the school input. In fact, lots of parents get their kids tutored. If I had my time again, I wouldn't send my kids there. Smaller schools like Patcham, Kings, PACA and BACA put a lot more in and I think kids see that. DS/V need to be shrunk and have a kick up their complacent a#ses.

There is a huge amount of snobbery about DS/V and you would be an outlier not sending your kids there. However I would spend some time looking at the (easy to get to) alternatives. You get more house for your money in Patcham too!

I also understand why DS/V can't take any more. The three bulge classes at DS mean they already have 90 kids over normal numbers, and they are completely rammed. Imo the experience and opportunities for kids is significantly compromised as a consequence. V's leadership is a bit shaky atm too.

I also agree there needs to be a catchment shake up, but it is political suicide to do so, so no party is prepared to take it on.

The existing system is inherently unfair, with low income areas having no choice of school, just the one 'poorer performing' school in their area, and wealthier areas having choice of two 'good' schools. The proposed new school (in Hanover area) would have helped this a bit, but overall the extra school places aren't needed - the 'poorer performing' schools can easily take the overflow from the wealthier area.

All this is academic - I understand why you want to avoid what happened this year. As well as looking at other B&H schools - what about Lewes Priory? Easy journey on the train.

Finally, and this is very machiavellian, but if you did find yourself in the same position as the misplaced62, then you could appeal.

One way of increasing success at appeal is to have something that you child has/is/does that the school you are allocated doesn't, but the school you want does. So, if the school you are allocated doesn't do triple science, and your child wants to be a vet, and DS/V does do triple... Or if they play tennis at county level and the allocated school doesn't have courts but DS/V does etc. Maybe you could investigate and see if anything fits?? DS certainly used to have Latin as an option for example, which other schools don't.

I am going to get rounded on now, aren't I?

Thanks so much for all the amazing, helpful comments. I've learnt a lot and there's a lot to think about.

GreenHandles, I'm not sure if the lofty ambitions of an 11-year old would cut much sway with an admissions panel, but I could be wrong!

OP, I have looked at the figures, on the B&H website and it looks as if numbers of in-catchment applicants for V and DS were roughly the same, so if they were successful in the lottery they would more likely be awarded their first choice. However DS still took 23 second choice applicants, so please put both schools as your first 2 choices as you have nothing to lose by doing so.

You asked what a banker was and in your area it would be Hove Park which still has 53 places after the first application stage. So if you put it as your 3rd choice you would be guaranteed a place.

Patcham would be more of a gamble as it only took 16 out-of catchment pupils, while a further 38 were unlucky. It might be worth taking the risk as there would be a good chance of getting one of the available places at Hove Park (53 places available for 62 needing placed) on the second round, bearing in mind that it might not be the obvious choice of pupils at the east of the V/DS catchment.

I can't comment on the faith schools as I have not looked at their admissions criteria.

Thanks @GreenHandles. Really helpful.

@CecilyP, that's also really helpful. Can I ask - what if we wanted to consider The Priory in Lewes? How does that work, as in, do we have a fighting chance?

I live spitting distance from Patcham and I've got lots of friends with their children there. They have only got good things to say. Definitely worth considering it. I don't know of they are over subscribed? We'll be putting down Newman as my DCs are at St Bernadette's and it's pretty much a done deal that everyone in their class goes to Newman (bar one or two). We'll be putting down Patcham as our back up.

Sorry, I am not an admissions expert - just interested as I used to live in Brighton. You would be allowed to apply for the Priory but best check with East Sussex on how to go about it and whether you would stand a chance on getting a place.

Move to Scotland and your child will be given a place in the catchment school of the house you choose.

Simples.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder

Move to Scotland and your child will be given a place in the catchment school of the house you choose.

Simples.

What happens if the school is full, or do they just add places?

@CecilyP

GreenHandles, I'm not sure if the lofty ambitions of an 11-year old would cut much sway with an admissions panel, but I could be wrong!

OP, I have looked at the figures, on the B&H website and it looks as if numbers of in-catchment applicants for V and DS were roughly the same, so if they were successful in the lottery they would more likely be awarded their first choice. However DS still took 23 second choice applicants, so please put both schools as your first 2 choices as you have nothing to lose by doing so.

You asked what a banker was and in your area it would be Hove Park which still has 53 places after the first application stage. So if you put it as your 3rd choice you would be guaranteed a place.

Patcham would be more of a gamble as it only took 16 out-of catchment pupils, while a further 38 were unlucky. It might be worth taking the risk as there would be a good chance of getting one of the available places at Hove Park (53 places available for 62 needing placed) on the second round, bearing in mind that it might not be the obvious choice of pupils at the east of the V/DS catchment.

I can't comment on the faith schools as I have not looked at their admissions criteria.

Haha, yes, the lofty ambitions of a year 6 pupil with no evidence wouldn't cut it at an appeal!

However if a child can shown a demonstrable interest/talent of some time standing, then it can be used in an appeal if the allocated school would somehow impede that, but the desired school would facilitate.

Possibly say a child does 15 hrs of gym training per week and the travel time via two buses to the allocated school would make that impossible, but the desired school was 10 mins walk, or if the child was working at an advanced level in maths and the allocated school got very poor results for their higher achieving maths students, didn't run a maths club, didn't do the maths Olympiads, didn't give additional maths as a option in KS4.

Like I say, it's a bit of an 'out there' thought, but if anything like that fitted, then @Postcardsfromstress might want to start thinking about gathering evidence. Having said that, the stress of school allocation is high, and the stress of appeal even higher.

@reenon - I would def consider Patcham. We're not far but but we're not in the catchment...

@Postcardsfromstress This link may be useful if you're interested in looking into East Sussex schools as a backup: www.eastsussex.gov.uk/media/16254/part-3-secondary-schools.pdf

Unfortunately it doesn't have the information on how far out The Priory went with allocations in recent years, saying that you need to contact the school, but it might have some useful information.

In fact the main link: https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/educationandlearning/schools/admissions/download5/ may be more useful, as this has links to the admission criteria, etc, as well

There is a FB group called Brighton and Hove School Catchments you may or may not be aware of. Someone on there started a related thread this morning, and people are posting their views on various schools. It might be an interesting browse if you aren't already on it.

[quote Postcardsfromstress]@reenon - I would def consider Patcham. We're not far but but we're not in the catchment...[/quote]
Ah bum

It's such a bloody nightmare isn't it. I really feel for you.

You're all amazing and so helpful. Thank you guys

@CecilyP

GreenHandles, I'm not sure if the lofty ambitions of an 11-year old would cut much sway with an admissions panel, but I could be wrong!

OP, I have looked at the figures, on the B&H website and it looks as if numbers of in-catchment applicants for V and DS were roughly the same, so if they were successful in the lottery they would more likely be awarded their first choice. However DS still took 23 second choice applicants, so please put both schools as your first 2 choices as you have nothing to lose by doing so.

You asked what a banker was and in your area it would be Hove Park which still has 53 places after the first application stage. So if you put it as your 3rd choice you would be guaranteed a place.

Patcham would be more of a gamble as it only took 16 out-of catchment pupils, while a further 38 were unlucky. It might be worth taking the risk as there would be a good chance of getting one of the available places at Hove Park (53 places available for 62 needing placed) on the second round, bearing in mind that it might not be the obvious choice of pupils at the east of the V/DS catchment.

I can't comment on the faith schools as I have not looked at their admissions criteria.

This has really helped me understand the admissions. Thanks so much @CecilyP.

What I don't understand is why there are only 2 schools in my catchment area (Varndean and DS); Patchment is the only school in its catchment area (looking at the map, if I'm looking correctly).

Not only does that seem unlikely to accommodate numbers (as proven) BUT it means you always have to put out of catchment schools as your second or even third choice?

Has this happened before? As far as I'm aware, this is first year that schools haven't been able to accommodate everyone in catchment who has chosen to apply. You ask why there are only 2 schools in some catchments but, if the schools were more evenly spaced, there would only be one school in each catchment, as there is in Scotland. However as V/DS and BM/HP are so close, it was decided that the catchments include both. With the increase in numbers, catchments are more like priority admissions areas, rather than guaranteed admissions areas.

Yes, indeed, to use your 3 choices efficiently you would have to put at least one out of catchment school. Or you may also opt for one or both of the faith schools, or even schools in East or West Sussex. It is a choice rather than an obligation. At present, all the single catchment schools are able to accommodate every child within that catchment, though that might change with Patcham which is now very close to the wire. All the others are considerably undersubscribed.

@CecilyP - I've heard other cases - but very small number - over the years.

Do you work in this area in Brighton? I can't remember from earlier in the thread.

You've been so helpful. Thank you.

No just used to live in Brighton and interested in stats!