To pursue a PhD and get student loans at age 39 and as a mum?

[ShuffleShuffleSpin]

My youngest will be starting school in the next couple of years and I am considering getting back into my career. I’ve been working part time from home for a while so I know I can juggle working with a family - but to continue my career development I would like to get a PhD as my particular career is limited without one.

In order to do this, i could either save up for several years, or if I wanted to get started on the PhD sooner I might need to get student loans.

On the one hand, I hate the idea of taking on roughly £25k in debt at my age for a career which I ideally wanted to do only part time while my children are still young and then switch to full time as they got older. However, on the other hand, I if I had the PhD the benefits would last for the rest of my working life and it would open many doors and jobs in my field which are not open to me now.

Has anyone had experience with getting student loans later in life? Would I be unreasonable to get them? I know there are so many details you would need to give me your best advice, but without being able to share that info, what would be your instinctive response?

Thanks so much in advance.

@ShuffleShuffleSpin What sort of field are you looking at and are you in the UK?

Depends on what your job market is like.

The job market in my field is very good, including for part time work. Would rather not say specific details about the specific area I want to work in just for privacy reasons. I do live in the U.K. and am British.

Have you looked into PhD funding options? I would not advise anyone to pay for a PhD out of pocket, unless they are doing it purely for their own enjoyment. In general if you're good enough to make a career out of it, you're good enough to get funding to pay for it.

Id say do it. Assuming it wont place undue financial stress on your family.

People spend money on all kind of things. E.g. new car for £30k.

In comparison, you shouldn't feel bad about spending money on your education and something you desire to do.

In a few years, you might look back in regret if you didnt do it.

It is hard to answer without specifics (totally understand why you would not want to share those though). My own observations are from having a PhD in a science subject with a meh job market... will the PhD make you more in demand, or is it more about career progression? Because my field requires a PhD to progress but it is a huge risk, as the PhD job market is much tougher than the graduate one.

What's the situation with sponsorship - any chance of e.g. research council funding? That would solve your money problems, and in my area it's a sign that the research group is well thought of. It depends what subject area you are in though. In science, a PhD is usually a very close collaboration with a research group and a lot depends on the name of your supervisor. I know it's different in other areas. If it's more one of those areas where you work alone, do you have an idea what you would like to do your PhD on? Would you be able to run it past someone in your field?

Would your work sponsor you and/or allow you to combine it with working or hold your job open for you?

I would also thinking about whether you will enjoy a PhD and if you feel up for it. I found original research quite a challenge, more emotionally than intellectually really, because there were no deadlines and no straightforward criteria for success or failure. I didn't like the open endedness at all.

It totally depends on the career you are choosing. I know many PhDs who are working in low-ish paid jobs. Nothing wrong with that, they enjoyed their PhDs but it wasn't a career investment.

If your specific career requires a PhD then go for it. If not then do it if you want to and can afford to.

I can partially relate, in thar aged 37 I'm about to start a 4 year degree, and then a further advancement after that.
Whilst the idea of the loans concern me (I'll have a minimum of 28k debt), I have always wanted to do this job and it will enhance what I do now.
Figured I have a load of years still left to work, I might as go for what I really want to do.

You wouldn’t be able to get student loans as you get for an undergraduate degree.

I am planning to do one in my 40s. I’d look at all funding, bursaries and studentships and start writing your plans ASAP! Sounds great!

If a PhD is needed for progression in your particular field is it not funded?

@bingoitsadingo

Have you looked into PhD funding options? I would not advise anyone to pay for a PhD out of pocket, unless they are doing it purely for their own enjoyment. In general if you're good enough to make a career out of it, you're good enough to get funding to pay for it.

I'd agree -- this is certainly the case in my field. A good candidate would not be self-funding, and a self-funded doctorate would be unlikely to make that person particularly employable subsequently in the job market, as they would be someone who had been unable to successfully compete for scholarships or funding from any of the major sources.

However, the OP presumably knows her own field, and it's possible there's less stigma attached to self-funded doctorates.

Do you have a solid project and a potential supervisor in mind, OP?

Take the student loans, they are effectively a tax rather than a loan and either your earnings will make it worthwhile taking them or you won't pay them back. Martin Lewis website has a clear explanation.

I'm 41 and doing an MSc with the hope of eventually doing a professional doctorate, I figured I'm only halfway through my work life, at least 2 decades until I retire.

Started MA at 35 after baby was born and went part time. 10k student loan. Worth it for me. Make sure you have guaranteed regular child free time to actually do the work!

@Greenmarmalade

You wouldn’t be able to get student loans as you get for an undergraduate degree.

I am planning to do one in my 40s. I’d look at all funding, bursaries and studentships and start writing your plans ASAP! Sounds great!

You can get student loans for doctorate study, not means tested and a set amount, but other than that just like undergraduate loans.

Field does kind of matter if you want advice. Would you being applying as a PhD candidate to investigate an already identified question or bringing your own hypothesis?

If self funding you have more flexibility as an independent researcher but still need a workable hypothesis and relevant supervisor, preferably with a proven track record of expertise in the field and successful supervision.

If you are working part time now and want to work part time with a PhD it really wouldn't make sense to do a PhD full time. It's 3-4 years full time. 5-7 + years part time. Don't imagine you can do a full time PhD in part time hours because it is not taught. ime the first year was but there is additionally the expectation to teach, write papers for publication/presentation at conferences.

I think you may be focussing too much on career progression with a PhD rather than on reality of doing a PhD.

@bingoitsadingo

Have you looked into PhD funding options? I would not advise anyone to pay for a PhD out of pocket, unless they are doing it purely for their own enjoyment. In general if you're good enough to make a career out of it, you're good enough to get funding to pay for it.

this, this, this x 100000000000

Thank you for the suggestion to look at Money Saving Expert’s advice about whether it makes sense to get student loans. I’ll do that. Also good point re the fact that ppl get loans for so many reasons (home extension, cars etc) so why not?

Regarding my field, it would lead to higher paying work as well as a more stable job position for me in the long term (although of course my income during the years of the programme would be low!). It doesn’t seem like everyone gets completely funded so I think the chances of having to pay some of the tuition are pretty high for most candidates. Great point regarding looking at making sure I have enough child free time to complete all of the necessary work. I’m still trying to get a feel for that!

I think my core question is whether it is worth taking on student loans at my age and trying to get a feel for how it may have worked out for others. It’s great to hear from some of you furthering your education in your 30s and 40s!

There's plenty of people who do PhDs in their late 30s and beyond, and plenty with children too. I have the impression that in the lab-based sciences the age range might be lower, and if you're planning to do a lot of international fieldwork it is more tricky with dependants, but in general your age and being a parent would not be that unusual. If anything, having had some life experience is helpful in navigating the inevitable setbacks which are part of the process of obtaining a PhD.

I do agree with what has been said about looking for funding. Most candidates, 80-90% in my field, will have funding from a research council. It shows potential supervisors you're serious - esp if you bring the funding with you - it links you in to wider research networks, it often comes with funding for open access publication of your work, and going through the whole application process is a useful way to refine your ideas. It also puts a deadline on when you have to submit, and given a PhD will expand to take up the amount of time you give it at some point a hard deadline becomes necessary. The only person I know who self-funded took almost a decade to get their PhD, partly because they were never anyone's priority when compared to the higher profile research council funded research.

My partner is doing a part-time PhD aged 48 and still works full time. She managed to get a full scholarship funding so doesn't pay a thing. Could you look into scholarships of grants?

The funding as credibility issue really depends on your field. I crossed from core science undergrad to an interdisciplinary field much later (your age in fact!). In my former area it would have been unthinkable to fund your own PhD - but in my new field it was not uncommon, and it was certainly fairly common for people to have incomplete funding.

In my case I did an MPhil (I had some savings for that) and used that to apply and obtain PhD funding. But getting funding as an individual (as opposed to getting a place that the supervisor has already obtained funding for) is reaaaally tough and competitive - toughest thing I've ever done.

I considered working part-time and doing the PhD part-time over 6-7 years self-funded. I never considered borrowing the money - as that would be effectively asking dh to borrow the money with me as we have joint finances. I said I would see to it that we didn't go into debt over it although I wouldn't be earning much (but not zero - either I would get a maintenance AND fees grant - or work). But if you are comfortable, personally with borrowing the money - really that's up to you.

Regarding my field, it would lead to higher paying work as well as a more stable job position for me in the long term (although of course my income during the years of the programme would be low!). It doesn’t seem like everyone gets completely funded so I think the chances of having to pay some of the tuition are pretty high for most candidates.

Sorry but this doesn't make sense. Your income whilst doing a PhD would be negative. You would be paying fees and not free to do paid work. The exception are those funded by their employer. Also, most PhD candidates are funded and pay no tuition (if partially university funded) or also usually receive maintenance costs if funded by a research council.

Could you not apply for a funded PhD so you wouldn’t have to do loans?

Would you get a loan if you already have a degree and a masters? The rates on a commercial bank loan might be quite high, but may be manageable if you’re still working while you study.

@bingoitsadingo

Have you looked into PhD funding options? I would not advise anyone to pay for a PhD out of pocket, unless they are doing it purely for their own enjoyment. In general if you're good enough to make a career out of it, you're good enough to get funding to pay for it.

Agreed!

Also depending on the field it won't just be university fees, do you you need to think about bench fees (for lab work or similar), access to databases, conference travel, funds to pay to publish in journals?

For my field (epidemiology) a PhD is pretty much worthless without publications, and the costs can be eye watering