AIBU to say 9 zoom meetings in a day is just too much

[Youngatheart00]

Just looked at my work diary and that is what awaits me today. The rest of the week is just as bad. I just feel like crying. I hate it so much

@Fnib I have been there ten years and only know of one person who has burnt out. I think the difference is that the senior staff who are busy and in demand are very well compensated. Everything is outsourced to their partners who are typically Sahp, they have an incredibly comfortable lifestyle so they only have to worry about work rather than any life admin. I even look after their emails for them so they only need to look at ones that require a response.

I don’t believe the notion that someone is well paid and therefore should be able to tolerate a relentless schedule necessarily holds up

Compensation comes in to it, but we are all human and all have our limits

My employer did away with secretaries / office admin for all but board level in a restructure last year

Yeah, personally I'm really not sure this work from home thing is working out even if others are enthusiastic.

Seems like for some the whole job becomes meetings, I imagine someone will come up with a new methodology to combat this like agile and ITIL, then everyone will have to take a cert exam in that methodology, wasting even more time!!

I feel like people are constantly in Team meetings to make them look as though they are constantly busy and rocking this "working from home" thing. Not speaking for everyone but it certainly seems that way where I work.

YANBU OP, it can be very mentally draining sitting and talking to a computer all day.

My diary always looked like this pre lockdown as it's a busy, collaborative job working with lots people all over the globe. other tools such as Slack as a PP mentioned also used for ongoing team communication. So this sounds 'normal' to me.

However, you're saying you never had so many meetings before. Zoom is simply a tool to facilitate meetings which would happen F2F if everyone was based in the same place. It's this change that needs looking at to understand if/why so many zoom calls are happening, whether they are needed, and whether there isn't a smarter way of working.

I had 11 zoom/teams meetings between Monday morning and Wednesday lunchtime last week and that was too much!

@WishingHopingThinkingPraying

What kind of work do you do? We would be heavy on meetings (agile tech company) but we use a tool called slack which is brilliant for reducing the number of meetings. When there's an issue or need to chat, I open a channel, add the key people and pose the key question to start the conversation. It works brilliantly and saves SOOOO many meetings.

We also use Slack, but recently I’ve found that I now can’t keep up with all conversations there as they also generate actions (I have the same problem as the OP with never having time to complete actions)

How can I manage the things that come out of Slack better so I don’t get behind?

Sorry for hijack OP but I think it’s probably the same question actually.

[quote AllTheCakes]@Fnib I have been there ten years and only know of one person who has burnt out. I think the difference is that the senior staff who are busy and in demand are very well compensated. Everything is outsourced to their partners who are typically Sahp, they have an incredibly comfortable lifestyle so they only have to worry about work rather than any life admin. I even look after their emails for them so they only need to look at ones that require a response.[/quote]
God, I hate that attitude. Employers should not be operating on the basis that their staff have someone staying at home who is picking up the slack. This is one of the reasons why we see so many mothers on here who want to work but are unable to. It's also the reason that, certainly in my field, men tend to be able to progress to more senior roles while women can't.

@GCAcademic I agree, I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just the way it is unfortunately. There are some senior women in the same boat too, but for most women jobs like this are unmanageable. Our workplace constantly have well being initiatives, mindfulness drives and the likes, but the reality is that most people would just like less meetings and to work shorter hours in order to reduce their stress levels.

Oh don't get me started on the wellbeing initiatives. I have a theory that the more an employer emails its staff about wellbeing, the worse they are to work for. It's almost like a form of gaslighting.

Yes, when the well-being initiatives are yet another zoom meeting or email 🙈

My colleagues tend to work like this. I've just been sent an invite for a 7.30am meeting on weds (i declined). I 'cope' as follows:

• block out time on my calender. The outlook focus time thing is good for this although it is a little bit overzealous at times.
• decline meetings in which I don't have an active role. We have a real culture of scheduled weekly meetings with no real objectives. Pointless waste of time.
• go to a meeting for 15mins, get what I need then out.

Any of this help?

What do you do during the meetings, OP? I have a lot of meetings some days but I tend to work on things during them if I can. That's not possible in some - I'm about to head into a 90 minute performance meeting with a struggling member of my team so will need to concentrate fully - but in others I am more of a spectator and get on with writing things, or even dip out for short phone calls with others.

Can you work out which meetings are new from the three you would have had in the office, and push back on those if the issues can be addressed in a different way? Are you senior enough to do that?

I would definitely recommend booking time out in your calendar as non-meeting time. I think it's very easy if someone wants to contact you to assume that any time not blocked out already is 'free' so the best way to combat this is to fill that time up with your own priorities. That way you might instead get an email or message from them that you can deal with far quicker.

@GCAcademic

Oh don't get me started on the wellbeing initiatives. I have a theory that the more an employer emails its staff about wellbeing, the worse they are to work for. It's almost like a form of gaslighting.

Most definitely!

@1990s I'm a master's this currently as I'm the main point of triage for the million requests that come to us. Right hand side of any slack message 'add to saved items'. It's like flagging something. I do that with any action I can't execute immediately. And come back to the whole list later in the day to blast through all requests. Keeps the stress low knowing I'll deal with them later. I've a similar set up in my mailbox. Two main folders, one for whatever emails, one for noisy emails that come from a specific service request tool. I read everything when it comes instantly and action anything I can immediately. Anything complex or needing time gets flagged to come back to properly.

I clean out my flags regularly but it means everyone gets a response in the timing they need as I'm not overwhelmed. It works brilliantly.

@Youngatheart00 I asked my line manager to take me off the mailing list for wellbeing sessions. They were always at the same time when I (and many of my colleagues) would have a particular task to do so couldn't attend. The final straw was several emails every day inviting us to afternoon tea break sessions - we haven't been allowed afternoon tea breaks for years, so I'm not sure how this came about, but I was actually angry every time I got an email about it as they were just reminders that I was busy and others weren't.
During this lockdown, they have solved this issue by arranging the well being sessions for 8.30 when most people start at 9. Sigh.

Urgh, that is awful.
Our company has a new policy where they're happy for you to decline meetings/ not attend unless it's pivotal to your role. I was sat in on so many meetings as an FYI and it was exhausting. They also encourage us to leave time before and after meetings, before having another to give sufficient time to prepare & then digest.
However, I also tend to put time in my diary for certain projects so people looking at my diary see I'm busy and don't request one.

For larger, regular, internal meetings - we also record them and they're available through Microsoft or similar, so if you can't attend you can watch back at a different time.

I'd speak to HR, packing your day with meetings ends up so unproductive for everyone involved.

My diary is like that at the minutes but my assistant is scheduling in what would normally just be an ad hoc phone call. No one just picks up the phone anymore it has to be scheduled in.

Zoom fatigue is very real!

A lot of this is caused by wfh. Something that could be resolved by a 5 minute office chat becomes an email chain, followed by a half hour meeting with 12 people (and generally the wrong 12 people). And half of them then don't listen on the call because they are multi-tasking and/or have technical difficulties so a 30 minute virtual meeting is only as effective as a 10 minute face to face meeting.

I'm sure that wfh is great in some jobs but in lots of jobs it just makes everything twice as complicated, time consuming and tiring.

Saying no to some is the best answer. Claim you are double booked (doing the actions from the previous meeting in reality).

It does suck but my job has always been like this, as has my husbands. Covid and zoom haven't made it worse.

Most days are all meetings and nothing else, then that ends up with more meetings because no work is being done. We both have double and triple bookings, so many days have 15+ hours of meetings but of course we have to just choose whatever is currently most pressing and skip the rest.
Constantly late as the meetings are back to back and for some reason people always misjudge the time needed. You can bet on most running over by at least 5 minutes, but 30 minute delays aren't uncommon.
Lunch and bathroom breaks more often than not happen thanks to the godsend that is mute.

I couldn't take all my holiday last year so have been having some days off this year instead including today. I bet I will have to push some of this years holiday to next year though, so what's the point? I'm sure when I quit this job one day, I will be behind on the holiday days anyway, so those belong to the company now.
Have to have meetings on days off as well, I have one later today. Doesn't feel like much of a day off when I have to plan the day around that meeting.

It's a bit funny though, I saw a woman on here last week upset about her husbands work schedule. She was both not believed about the amount of meetings her husband was having and she was told to suck it up and that "this is the way" in senior roles. Odd how different the responses are from one day to the next on this site. Or maybe the hatred she got was because she wasn't working, so how on earth dared she complain?

Gosh that is a lot of meetings.

How many are with the same people that cross over into different groups? Can you merge some of them? So if you and Gary have a meeting with Scott, and then you and Scott have a meeting with Sally have one meeting with Scott, Gary and Sally. You can also send off people once their stuff is discussed, but it means you only one iteration of the "how are you" chat, plus everyone feels more keenly aware of time so they get to discuss their stuff before the end.

I find we fill the time we have...and by the time we've had a 5 minute "how's your weekend" chat they do go on....

Can you dial in instead? Walk round the block for the ones that generate less notes and tasks.

My criteria for meetings, in whatever format, is as follows:

1. An agenda is syndicated at least 24 hours before the meeting (to allow people to prep) with the desired outcome outlined.

1a. There is a designated meeting host/moderator. 1b. There is a designated minute taker.

1. All invitees/participants have the authority to sanction the desired outcome.
2. Meetings are minuted with action items - clearly assigned to named people, deadlines and decisions. In addition risks and issues with mitigation are recorded.
3. Minutes are circulated for passive sign off, no later than 24 hours after the meeting.
4. First agenda item on any subsequent meeting is an update on the action items/risk/issue status from those responsible.
5. No meeting to exceed 60 minutes, well-run meetings allowed to end earlier, provided all agenda points have been covered.

I once made the mistake of counting my free non-meeting hours in a week. A grand total of 4...I’m often double or triple booked.

Yes, delegation is the key. At a certain level of seniority you are expected to manage, not do. It’s, in my opinion, the hardest transition to make. Meetings, coordination, and planning become your job. Once you make that mindset transition it becomes easier.