Do you feel appropriately paid for your work?

[shivawn]

Do you feel that your wages fairly reflect your skills and labour?

I'm just curious how people generally feel after chatting with my own colleagues a few days ago. They were complaining that we're underpaid and that they will struggle to live on these wages as they get older and want to start families etc. We're all nurses on a public payscale so on the same or similar pay (working in Ireland where nurses are better paid than in the UK). I felt really surprised as I consider myself well paid for doing a job that I love, probably more than many of my friends in other professions.

Are you happy with your wage in relation to what you contribute to your employer or do you think you're worth more?

I'm a carer. I am overwhelmingly underpaid. I'm paid NMW for administering controlled medications, minor wound care, skin care (including bedsores, torn skin etc) along with being a therpaist, hairdresser, cleaner, cook, personal shopper and more.

Let that sink in for a while. I get the same as someone working p/t in a corner shop for dishing out morphine. I perform CPR for the same wage as a school dinner lady.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working in a corner shop or being a school dinner lady, there's not. All jobs are 'worthy' and all should be paid a living wage but at the end of the day a cashier at a corner shop is not likely to be charged with manslaughter if she makes a mistake and short changes someone unlike me if I make a mistake and give someone too much morphine or fail to spot that someone needs urgent medical attention. My pay should reflect that.

Not only am I overwhelmingly under paid but a lot of people fight tooth and nail to keep it that way by hiding assests so they don't have to pay me properly for providing end of life care to their loved ones.

*I am an accountant too. I trained in a Big 4 practice. I’ve worked in the public sector and the private sector. Three separate public sector bodies. I can guarantee you that the accountants in the public sector were paid more than the equivalent roles in the private sector businesses I’ve worked in.

The difference is enormous all right: but in the opposite direction than you are arguing for.*

We have extremely similar experience. I too have worked in both public and private sector. I've done similar roles in both. Two equivalent jobs paid me £70k in the private sector and £42k in government. So you can think what you like, but I don't agree and don't accept your "guarantee"

@Frequency

I'm a carer. I am overwhelmingly underpaid. I'm paid NMW for administering controlled medications, minor wound care, skin care (including bedsores, torn skin etc) along with being a therpaist, hairdresser, cleaner, cook, personal shopper and more.

Let that sink in for a while. I get the same as someone working p/t in a corner shop for dishing out morphine. I perform CPR for the same wage as a school dinner lady.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working in a corner shop or being a school dinner lady, there's not. All jobs are 'worthy' and all should be paid a living wage but at the end of the day a cashier at a corner shop is not likely to be charged with manslaughter if she makes a mistake and short changes someone unlike me if I make a mistake and give someone too much morphine or fail to spot that someone needs urgent medical attention. My pay should reflect that.

Not only am I overwhelmingly under paid but a lot of people fight tooth and nail to keep it that way by hiding assests so they don't have to pay me properly for providing end of life care to their loved ones.

Really good post @Frequency

It really annoys me to hear care workers written off as unskilled. There needs to be a massive overhaul of care, it needs a similar grading system to nursing, a similar pay structure and registration of carers that complete training. It's the only way care will improve, but that'll mean they can't pay everyone nmw or pennies above it for "senior" roles, and that's going to increase costs more like decrease profits and that isn't what people want. They want top quality care at basement bargain prices.

Yes, probably a bit overpaid. I hate my job though.

Yes, all keep telling yourselves that if you moved from public to private sector you’d earn more.

If you are a solicitor in a local authority, you’ll definitely walk into a senior position in a magic circle firm for five times your salary. Yes.

If you work in the NHS on the equivalent of £27 an hour, when your salary is divided by the number of hours in a year, you could definitely go freelance and charge £100 an hour for every hour you work. Yes, definitely.

If you are an accountant in the civil service who has never had to engage with, you know, EBITDA or profit or cash flow, you will certainly walk into a private sector role earning more. Except you won’t: for your level of experience of the real world, you will be earning more than your private sector equivalent and you’ll have a much more generous pension.

My test for these claims is always, “well, if you’d be paid three times as much in the private sector, why not leave?”. They never do. Excuses are usually ‘pension’ and ‘I’m doing this job for the good of society’.

I used to laugh when public sector colleagues would compare accountancy firms’ charge out rates to their own salaries. Let’s say that somebody of an equivalent level of experience - not proficiency - from a top ten firm auditing them was charged out at £600 per day. The public sector colleagues would harrumph and decide that they, too were worth £600 per day, they had been an accountant for just as long hadn’t they, so their salary should be X times what they were being paid. Of course, they didn’t get that the person doing the work wasn’t getting £600 a day personally and charge out rates don’t correspond directly to salary. Did it stop them moaning that they could earn at least three times as much on the private sector? No.

You get the odd example where eg somebody who has been very senior in HMRC gets a role with KPMG or Deloitte on a bigger salary. That is because (1) they have been very senior and (2) the firm wants the inside track on where HMRC’s strategy is going. Once they have dragged all of the knowledge out of that person, they generally don’t stick around for long.

The people who are really underpaid are working in care homes and nurseries. Is it within our power to change that? Yes. Nobody wants to, though.

We regularly see threads moaning about the high cost of nursery. Of course it is. If you want qualified professionals caring for your children, their salaries have to be paid. You can’t whine about nursery being expensive and simultaneously boo hoo over low wages for nursery staff.

Ditto care homes: the irony of people moaning that it’s not fair that mum’s house should be sold to pay for long term care or, worse, scheming to avoid payment. You can’t argue, effectively, that care should be free then wrong your hands over low pay for care staff. It doesn’t add up.

@harknesswitch

Yes, I love my job and feel I get paid very well

Me too.

Job is great, company is great and I earn very well. Can’t complain!

WRING your hands, not WRONG them!

@Frequency

I'm a carer. I am overwhelmingly underpaid. I'm paid NMW for administering controlled medications, minor wound care, skin care (including bedsores, torn skin etc) along with being a therpaist, hairdresser, cleaner, cook, personal shopper and more.

Let that sink in for a while. I get the same as someone working p/t in a corner shop for dishing out morphine. I perform CPR for the same wage as a school dinner lady.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working in a corner shop or being a school dinner lady, there's not. All jobs are 'worthy' and all should be paid a living wage but at the end of the day a cashier at a corner shop is not likely to be charged with manslaughter if she makes a mistake and short changes someone unlike me if I make a mistake and give someone too much morphine or fail to spot that someone needs urgent medical attention. My pay should reflect that.

Not only am I overwhelmingly under paid but a lot of people fight tooth and nail to keep it that way by hiding assests so they don't have to pay me properly for providing end of life care to their loved ones.

Same boat.

And I often get called thick to boot and mocked for not doing better in life.

I get no sick pay either, 12 hour shifts and the rota is a surprise every week

My test for these claims is always, “well, if you’d be paid three times as much in the private sector, why not leave?”. They never do. Excuses are usually ‘pension’ and ‘I’m doing this job for the good of society’.

@Iamthewombat Life's not all about money, as I clearly stated in my earlier posts on this thread. I'm willing to accept lower pay (and it undoubtedly is lower) in exchange for lower stress, a lot more annual leave, public service, and yes, a decent pension. I'm lucky enough to be able to make that choice and I don't understand your issue with it

Completely agree with the comments on the undervaluing of care work, it's outrageous

Yes, particularly over the last year. I can only do about 25% of my job from home (client service/support role) but am lucky enough to have been paid in full throughout.
I'm onsite one day a week at the moment but that will probably increase over the next couple of months

I am a nurse and consider myself to be significantly underpaid for the level of education ,work and responsibilities I have to take on.

It will never happen but I think if we were paid based on our skills and job performance I would be much more satisfied. It really gets to me that I end up taking on double the amount of work as a colleague, because they are unable to cope and manage their time effectively, I then end up immensely stressed and overworked as a result and we are paid exactly the same.

My test for these claims is always, “well, if you’d be paid three times as much in the private sector, why not leave?”. They never do. Excuses are usually ‘pension’ and ‘I’m doing this job for the good of society’.

Some people enjoy the job satisfaction of doing something for others.

But the same logic stands in reverse I suppose. People complain about public sector pensions and don't want people to have them, but they don't want to work in the public sector themselves.

I think a lot of the public Vs private also neglects to factor in that for a lot of people they don't get much choice in where they work really. They take a job that they can commute to from where they live. In some parts of the UK there are more public sector jobs whilst in others there are more private sector jobs, and with the exception of very senior roles or career opportunities that people are able to relocate for, most people take what they can get.

@Iamthewombat

The people who are really underpaid are working in care homes and nurseries. Is it within our power to change that? Yes. Nobody wants to, though.

We regularly see threads moaning about the high cost of nursery. Of course it is. If you want qualified professionals caring for your children, their salaries have to be paid. You can’t whine about nursery being expensive and simultaneously boo hoo over low wages for nursery staff.

Ditto care homes: the irony of people moaning that it’s not fair that mum’s house should be sold to pay for long term care or, worse, scheming to avoid payment. You can’t argue, effectively, that care should be free then wrong your hands over low pay for care staff. It doesn’t add up.

But the point is that nursery is very expensive already, as is care home care- yet staff aren't paid much above minimum wage, which is outrageous. Are you saying people should pay more in the hope that some is passed on to staff? Wouldn't it be better if there was a level of support from the government? Full time nursery here is £1250 for a week, and they barely break even; what amount would you believe to be 'fair' for parents to pay?

To add, nursery fees and care is subsidised for some, should some continue to get it for free whilst others pay more than they do already, or is there a better way that makes it fairer for all? Keen to hear your ideas.

But the point is that nursery is very expensive already, as is care home care- yet staff aren't paid much above minimum wage, which is outrageous.

Then nursery isn’t expensive enough, is it? You go on to say that nurseries ‘barely break even’ despite paying low wages. What does that tell you?

Are you saying people should pay more in the hope that some is passed on to staff?

Yes. But not “in the hope”. If parents demanded that nursery staff were paid better, and only used nurseries that paid a better salary, the extra fees would have to be used for salary increases.

Wouldn't it be better if there was a level of support from the government?

Now we come to it. Someone else should pay. “The government” = taxpayers.

Full time nursery here is £1250 for a week, and they barely break even

So they aren’t charging enough, or more likely cannot charge enough because parents won’t pay more.

@Iamthewombat I was headhunted for a role that paid more than double than my CS role 2 months ago, exact same job title, I turned it down because I WANT to work in government, ultimately I want to be a policy advisor advising on the legislation I work with, working in the private sector won't help me in that goal. Your extremely ignorant to assume you know everything about every private and public sector job

*you're

Im overpaid if anything. Salary in mid-60s and I could do the job with my eyes shut 80% of the time.

I actually feel that I get over paid sometimes (I'm a freelance writer, writing web content, and earn per word which works out at about £60ph because I can type really, really fast haha) but obviously I'm not going to complain about that.

I just literally cannot believe that I earn that much money for working from home, doing what I love. Sometimes I chill in bed writing, sometimes I can work in the garden when it's warm enough.

I am so very lucky.

Oh the hilarity of people using the term ‘headhunted’. You mean that a recruitment consultant saw your profile on LinkedIn and called you, alongside 20 other people?

People using the word ‘headhunted’ fantasise that the Illuminati have spotted their unique potential and have spent days in dark rooms scheming to get their hands on you and your fabulous skills. Like executive search people looking for the next CEO of Shell.

Hubris at its worst! You know that recruiters call loads of people every day, right?

DH however works in industry operations and I think is vastly underpaid (42k) for the level of direct responsibility he has, the stress, the hours and the degree of people management

@ouchmyfeet

My test for these claims is always, “well, if you’d be paid three times as much in the private sector, why not leave?”. They never do. Excuses are usually ‘pension’ and ‘I’m doing this job for the good of society’.

@Iamthewombat Life's not all about money, as I clearly stated in my earlier posts on this thread. I'm willing to accept lower pay (and it undoubtedly is lower) in exchange for lower stress, a lot more annual leave, public service, and yes, a decent pension. I'm lucky enough to be able to make that choice and I don't understand your issue with it

Completely agree with the comments on the undervaluing of care work, it's outrageous

Yes of course there is more to life than money but you are off on a tangent. Perhaps wilfully.

The ‘I’m so public spirited that I couldn’t possibly abandon the public sector’ and ‘the pension is too good to leave’ excuses are fig leaves. To be hidden behind when somebody’s bluff has been called.

If somebody cares enough about money to grouse that they could earn 3x if they moved to the private sector, then they’d have moved if they could. That they don’t proves that they can’t. In other words, they were talking bollocks.

Yes, I’m well paid for the effort/time expended on work. I could earn considerably more (my boss earns just over double), but the high tax rate doesn’t make it worth my while. I’m happy for my boss to take on the responsibility and stress. I don’t think the extra money is worth it based on the state of her physical and mental well-being!

To add, nursery fees and care is subsidised for some, should some continue to get it for free whilst others pay more than they do already, or is there a better way that makes it fairer for all? Keen to hear your ideas.

So now it’s my job to reform nursery funding? I don’t think so. You have made your position clear: you think that nursery staff are underpaid and you’d love them to be paid more, provided that it doesn’t cost you, the user of the services, a penny extra.