To ask you about adoption?

[Milgram]

Asking here because I thought it might be an insensitive question for the adoption board.

My sister and her husband are thinking of adopting. For various reasons they have decided not to try for a biological child and prefer the idea of adopting.

I am happy for them and always support their choices, but even though I am excited for them a private part of me is really anxious.

I work in a pupil referral school and have worked with so many children who have experienced the care system and are living with trauma. I have met amazing foster and adoptive parents, with so much compassion, knowledge and experience, but my sister and her husband don’t really know anything about children, they have never worked with children and don’t know about the sorts of social and emotional and behavioural difficulties traumatised children can show. I am just worried they are seeing a rosy picture of things and won’t be prepared for what (may be?) a more challenging reality than they thought?

I am also aware that I am very biased in my experienve because all the children I work with - by definition - are stuggling. There may be many many many adoptive families that have a wonderful experience, but I just never hear about them.

So am I being unreasonable to be so anxious about it?
Am I catastrophising here?
Do social services do a good job of preparing and teaching adoptive parents what they need to know?

If there are any social workers or people with experience here, please be honest with me, but please also be kind. I promise I am not judging or interfering, I am just anxious for my little sister and can’t raise these concerns in real life.

My husbands colleague adopted two little girls ( of 10 siblings by different fathers) and the mother contested but the father was in jail. It wasn’t an easy process and obviously there are still affects on the girls from their previous life. The colleague and his wife were both inexperienced in childcare too but actually have dealt really well with it all. I think it’s more about the attitude in sharing love with a child rather than having a picture perfect family. It’s the attitude that the adoptive parents go in with that makes all the difference. By all means tell them the process in hard but don’t judge their decision

Thanks @LouiseTrees, what sort of attitude do you think is helpful?

I would think that if they start off not knowing much about the realities of parenting an adopted child they will find out a lot during the adoption process. I know people who have adopted and from what they have told me it's a very difficult and involved process.

You needn’t worry. Even the initial information sessions paint an informed sense of the realities of UK adoption.

They will be well prepared and informed during the process.

(I don’t know why you didn’t think this was an ok question for the adoption board. Wouldn’t you get the most well-informed views there?).

Thanks everyone.
I didn’t put it on the adoption board because I assumed everybody there is hoping for a happy experience. I didn’t want anyone to feel I was being negative or critical.

Lots of people on that board are years into their adoption experience.

I adopted my youngest dd. All I will say is that children who are adopted will have experience trauma, abuse or neglect at some point in their lives, or even in the womb, which has now been proved to cause behavioural issues too.

It's not plain sailing or easy going, you need to go in with your eyes wide open and expect that it won't be a 'normal' relationship, but during the process they will be given support and advice and should realise all this.

Love sometimes isn't enough, it takes hard work, time and a lot of effort and will continue through their entire lives

We haven’t adopted but we have SGO on our granddaughters. Their mother is adopted. One of 9, all adopted or fostered. Her bio mum is also adopted, one of 6 again all adopted. It’s a horrible cycle.

I only really have experience of 3 or 4 adopted people but all of them seem very damaged.

@Milgram, I’m a little bit terrified to be responding on AIBU but I wanted to raise my head above the parapet to help you (and your sister). I’m a single adoptive parent of two non-birth related children, a teenager and a five-year-old (just to make life extra hard!)

I honestly think you would get some insightful, wise and considered advice on the Adoption board here and I would heartily recommend AdoptionUK, although the forums are much quieter than they used to be, for a myriad of complicated reasons. There are also amazing closed groups (Sarah Naish’s Therapeutic Parenting on Facebook, for example).

Your sister and husband will undergo rigorous ‘training’ and assessment by social workers; but, honestly, NO training in the world prepares you for life 24/7 with trauma-experienced children. You will know that if you work in PRUs. And you, presumably, are able to go home at 3.30pm?

I have heard adoptive parenting described as parenting-plus to the power of about a million. Like foster carers, we are the proverbial swans protecting and covering for our little ones while paddling at about five million miles an hour below the surface just to try to keep up with our peers and the rest of society and put on a good show.

It WILL undoubtedly be difficult (there’s some research - though not a massive study, which always sets me twitching - that reckons that two-thirds of adoptive families will experience significant or some difficulties).

The majority of babies or children who come into the care system nowadays are removed from their birth families for reasons like domestic violence, drug and or alcohol addiction, neglect, physical and or sexual abuse - and often a combination of more than one of these (or the risk of future harm, if removed at birth). This obviously leaves a legacy and no amount of back-filling of love and attention can undo the damage that is caused physically and psychologically to our children. It would be good for your sister and her husband to read up on Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome, as well as attachment disordered behaviours.

My own DD1 has a significant disability as a result of her in utero experiences - but, against all the odds (and there were many) - she earned herself a place at a super-selective grammar school, where, with incredible pastoral support, she is thriving academically and now has a (few) good friends. Honestly, one friend = we’re winning at life! DD1 spent the first week of her life in SCBU withdrawing from opiates and had two foster placements before she was a month old, so even though I’ve had the privilege of being her mum for 13 years (it’s our ‘anniversary’ this month), her attachment to me is always ‘wobbly’ and her consequent behaviours can be challenging (stealing, lying, extreme anger, aggression and violence on an almost daily basis). On the plus side, her school SENCO and form tutor and head of year, tell me she is possibly one of the politest and most respectful young people in her year group (school is challenging as a disabled and adopted kidso she saves up all her angst and frustration till she arrives home and erupts like Etna!)

It’s a good job the five-year-old is an easy-peasy, happy-go-lucky, gorgeously larger-than-life socially easy butterfly (for now!) as I think I would be resorting to gin on my cornflakes rather than milk - and I really hate gin...

@Milgram

Thanks everyone. I didn’t put it on the adoption board because I assumed everybody there is hoping for a happy experience. I didn’t want anyone to feel I was being negative or critical.

Many of the posters on the board have been parenting numerous adoptive children for many years. Why are you assuming you’re an authority whose input is liable to be crushing? Are you relishing this at some level?

I think you're reading too much into this @vegetariandeathcult... pretty sure the OP was just trying to be polite?

@VegetarianDeathCult, some of us parenting numerous adoptive children can also multitask and juggle between boards...in fact, once I’ve put my house together after the latest outburst from my teen, I’m popping off to Style & Beauty for a bit of light relief (AKA, don’t be a dick).

They will be given the worst case scenarios when going through the adoption process, which will take 9+ months.
We adopted our son at 6 months old, he’s now 3 1/2. He doesn’t have ‘problems’ that we know of, he’s just a happy funny little boy.
Nothing prepares you for parenting, whether that’s birth or adoption.
They will be questioned about their reasons for not wanting a birth child, their family history, education, finances and jobs will be looking into, relatives and friends will have face to face meetings if they’re references. It’s a tough process.
Please move this to the adoption board though, it’s for positive and negative posts, but mostly posts asking for support and asking questions.

No direct experience and there’s obviously a lot of knowledgeable people around but I have two friends who both adopted boy girl siblings with very difficult backgrounds several years ago.
Both pairs are now teenagers.
One child had physical disabilities but broadly speaking all children are very happy and loved and it’s turned out really positively for them and for the parents of course. Pretty sure there will be many adoptive families where it hasn’t worked out nearly as well but I know they had a lot of support and help from ss initially (as well as a reality check as to how difficult it could be).

I am also aware that I am very biased in my experienve because all the children I work with - by definition - are stuggling. There may be many many many adoptive families that have a wonderful experience, but I just never hear about them

What circles do you move in that would mean you do hear about them (the wonderful experiences)? Genuine question.

Do you know many birth parents that would use that word to characterise their parenting experience? Or would they say, often, something a little more balanced, acknowledging there are both wonderful and not so wonderful moments?

[quote SmaugMum]@VegetarianDeathCult, some of us parenting numerous adoptive children can also multitask and juggle between boards...in fact, once I’ve put my house together after the latest outburst from my teen, I’m popping off to Style & Beauty for a bit of light relief (AKA, don’t be a dick).[/quote]
Not being a dick. I can appreciate the OP feels she has more experience than her sister and BIL because of her job, but she seems to be assuming everyone on the adoption board is also inexperienced or at an initial or early stage and ‘hoping for a happy experience’. It’s a weird assumption.

@VegetarianDeathCult, to be honest, I think she has a point...I’m an adopter 13 years in and I can find the Adoption board here a little ‘challenging’ in terms of prospective and newish adopters not really wanting to hear the ‘realities’ around adoption. I honestly feel like the Bad Fairy at Sleeping Beauty’s birth celebration when I post on there sometimes. And I (perhaps arrogantly?) sometimes think I might have something positive, resourceful or helpful to add after an adoption journey of 15 years...but, no. So, I don’t bother, and I stick to AIBU (because I clearly like to live dangerously) or Style and Beauty (because I have received the most uplifting support from a group of strangers whose only commonality is that they like a particular brand of clothes).

I also imagine that if the OP has experience of working in PRUs, then she is beyond the expectation that adoption = happy outcome (and fair play to her for that, as it is the truth that many other teachers and educational establishments could do with getting to grips with).

@Milgram I’m an SEN teacher working with LAC/PLAC and an adoptive mum of two, so I can sort of see where you’re coming from.

The training for adoptive parents is thorough and I don’t think you’d get through panel without a realistic grasp of the realities of adoption today where the majority of children adopted have suffered some form of trauma and will require a therapeutic style of parenting. There’s a good reason why they qualify for PP+ (look at the figures for the % of adopted children who are excluded, don’t get 5 GCSEs or have difficulties with their mental health).

I think people who think adoption is right for them, having been through the training, realise that it won’t be the same as parenting birth children, but are fine with that, will empathise with their children’s difficulties and are prepared for a massive fight for support. Constantly. They also need to be ok with the fact there may well be some form of contact with the birth family (initially that’s the bit I found hardest to get my head around - as a result of my own insecurities).

I’d advise your sister to read No Matter What by Sally Donovan and books by Dan Hughes and Louise Bomber (I’m always pushing my colleagues to read Louise Bomber’s books as they’re relevant to all children with SEMH difficulties, not just those who’ve been in care).

I do think your sister would be questioned on why she wants to adopt and not have a birth child. They will want to make sure she doesn’t think it’s a pain free way of getting a cute little baby ... as that’s really not the case. My two, both adopted as ‘easy to place’ babies, suffered significant harm in the womb. They are now 3 and 4, both have EHCPs , both under paediatricians for possible ASD and attachment disorder and I’ve all but given up my career to support them. We adore them, but our lives are nothing like the lives of families in their classes at school. Your sister would need to accept this is a possibility (though not certainty) and embrace that.

As others have said, both the adoption board here and the AUK website (plus numerous Facebook groups) will all offer a wealth of experience and support.

@SmaugMum ‘the Bad Fairy at Sleeping Beauty’s birth celebration’ ... oh, I hear you

Thank you so much everyone for commenting, and thank you @SmaugMum and @Rufus27 so much for understanding where I’m coming from, and the recommendations for reading. I really, really appreciate everyone who shared their own experiences with me.

Feeling relieved and reassured that everyone has said that adoptive parents are prepared for the realities of what to expect and it really is an informed decision.

@Wickstead you’re right, I wouldn’t hear positive stories (or perhaps a better phrase is easy stories) due to the circles I move in at work. Which is why I came here seeking a broader perspective. I didn’t want to be the “evil fairy” (great analogy @SmaugMum) by introducing the idea that it may not be plain sailing, but I do worry that she is coming at it from a naive point of view. Feeling much better now though after hearing from you all that the professionals do prepare them well.

Thanks again everyone, off to buy those books

@Milgram

Thank you so much everyone for commenting, and thank you *@SmaugMum* and *@Rufus27* so much for understanding where I’m coming from, and the recommendations for reading. I really, really appreciate everyone who shared their own experiences with me.

Feeling relieved and reassured that everyone has said that adoptive parents are prepared for the realities of what to expect and it really is an informed decision.

@Wickstead you’re right, I wouldn’t hear positive stories (or perhaps a better phrase is easy stories) due to the circles I move in at work. Which is why I came here seeking a broader perspective. I didn’t want to be the “evil fairy” (great analogy @SmaugMum) by introducing the idea that it may not be plain sailing, but I do worry that she is coming at it from a naive point of view. Feeling much better now though after hearing from you all that the professionals do prepare them well.

Thanks again everyone, off to buy those books

@Milgram

As an adoptive parent myself I can tell you she is likely to be naive to the actual experience of parenting adopted children; as I think a lot of adoptive parents would admit they are before they actually adopt, regardless of how good the prep is.

It’s an odd analogy but the closest thing that’s ever rung a little true to me...

Imagine someone said ‘ to you ‘my child will only eat hamburgers’. A lot of people would think ‘all children can be a bit like that’. They might conjure up an image of a fussy child, who expressed a preference for burgers. Some of those people, I imagine, would assume they could ‘fix’ those food issues pretty quickly by, for example, not offering hamburgers and letting the child eat or not (especially if they were a bit older).

But now, for a minute really think about what it must be like if your child ONLY ate hamburgers. For breakfast, lunch and dinner. How poorly your child might get, despite you using multiple tactics to try to get them to eat a more varied diet. Chances are that child has come from a history of neglect/abuse. Missing a few meals may not phase them and the control they can exert over their meal choices may be a source of great comfort to them, despite being physically hungry. Alternatively they may not feel full until they’ve eaten 3 hamburgers each meal. What the judgement from other people would be like and how your life would revolve around food? How quickly, for example, the school/doctors might start to express significant concerns. How limited your child’s life might be in terms of activities out of the home unless teachers/brownie leaders etc were flexible.

Unless you really thought about things in terms of the second paragraph, it’s possible you may remain thinking it would be like the former.

The good news is, your sister is likely to be encouraged to buddy with experienced adopters during the approval process who can talk them through the actual experience and prompt some real thought. Those adopters are unlikely to mince their words (SS are pretty good at pairing with adopters who tell it like it is)

The adopters board will be helpful to you... honestly don’t worry about putting prospective adopters off. If they’re put off by discussion of some of the experiences, they genuinely aren’t the right people to adopt.

@Milgram, I’m pleased you’re feeling supported and heard. With regards to the various book recommendations here, I just wanted to let you (and your sister) know that if you take out a membership to AUK, you can borrow books from their extensive library (they post them to you). Some of the adoption books are pricey (not to say boring, also), so it could be a good idea to try before buying. Your sister will also find the ‘bible’ that resonates for her as there are now a lot of so-called experts in the field of adoption and trauma. Personally speaking, I tend to opt for the authors like Sarah Naish who walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

Also, throughout the various lockdowns, AUK has been conducting webinars with various adoption ‘experts’ and I hope that these will be available for free on the AdoptionUK website. If you can find it, I would definitely recommend the session with Betsy de Thierry, the trauma specialist (after 13 years as an adoptive parent, and a somewhat cynical - or maybe just exhausted and jaded - client of therapists/CAMHS/etc) she blew my mind and really made me rethink my ‘practice’ as an adoptive parent.

I work in fostering and work closely with the adoption teams. They will have lots of training beforehand to get a sense of expectations, the assessment is super thorough and in my local authority prospective adopters have to have recent childcare experience.

I have a friend who is vegan and plans to adopt as we don't need to add more humans to the planet. I think she honestly thinks that a child will come and have a wonderful time because she will love them and give them a good lifestyle. All children in care have experienced trauma because they have all been removed from their birth families and then often from a foster placement too. Add that to whatever trauma led to them being removed in the first place and they need very considered and therapeutic caregiving. I would hope any naive prospective adopters would soon have their eyes opened wide throughout the assessment process.

We adopted a seven year old. I can honestly say that it has been absolutely fantastic. We totally adore our child and have the most wonderful family life together. The worst part of it was the adoption process which is hideous and the social workers who for want of a better word were liars.