Aibu to think there is advantages to Gaelic schools eg Irish/Welsh/Scottish medium education? Thinking of sending dc to one... All opinions appreciated

[MammabearX1]

Hi, I'm in Ireland & the best local shool in the area is a Gaelscoil (all subjects done through irish language)
DH & I have barely any irish from the leaving cert. Please tell me aibu to consider irish medium for dc?
Please tell me about
-the benefits of attending a Gaelic medium school

• does English or maths suffer
• are the children usually more driven seeing as it was a conscious choice by the parents?
• my family consider the Gaelscoils extremely snobby, I can't understand this as they are not fee paying...
• please tell me about irish speaking secondary schools. Do children who go to the Irish secondary schools generally get more points.

Thanks in advance..

My kids have all been educrated in Welsh medium schools, neither myself nor my husband are fluent (nor are most of the parents)

Letters etc come home in both languages, as are presentations aimed at parents (I think GCSE presentation was 75% Welsh as it was aimed at the kids). Parents evening - in comp they ask at the start of each subject, in primary they tend to know and just address you in that language

Mine didn't have any problems (1 chose to do her A levels in Welsh, 1 went to English medium college, 1 in sixth form in Welsh, 1 in junior school) - they do get financial advantage if they choose to do some or all of a degree in Welsh. There are the odd technical word where they have to stop and think what the English equilivant is
Homework in primary comes home bilingually (but they answer in Welsh but the English is so you can help them), by comp they translate for you if they want help

My daughter is in her final year of primary school in a Scottish Gaelic school and has been in GME (gaelic medium education) since starting nursery at age 3. We’re not native speakers and at times I’ve felt maybe it was the wrong decision to send her as learning everything in a 2nd language was tiring and she was resistant to doing homework due to being worn out from a full day at school. She has never struggled with understanding or speaking the language, just the effort involved. But now I’m glad we all persevered. She’s blossomed in self confidence, enjoys the cultural and social opportunities offered via Gaelic Fèis and Mod and is fully bi lingual.

Why do you only think fee-paying schools can be ‘snobby’?

Huge cultural benefits.
Learning two languages builds more pathways in the brain and has cognitive benefits.
It’s an active parenting choice to send your child to a gaelic school, meaning the pupils most likely have engaged parents and your children are more likely to have peers from backgrounds that care about education. They tend to be seen as more ‘middle class’, and yes this is terribly snobby, and I’m not saying it should be your deciding factor, but it could be relevant.

@cardiebach and @BeardieWeirdie - which county/ies are you in where all primary education is welsh medium only? Sorry to derail the thread, just interested!

OP - the snobby thing, if it's the same as Cardiff, there are some (a minority of) parents who choose welsh language because they think there will be mostly either welsh/english 1st language children there - there are some inner city english lang primaries where you can have 15plus different first languages in reception with a lot of the children not having much/any English when they start, which some parents think is a distraction because the teachers obviously need to give them a helping hand. You might have children there whose parents are 1st generation immigrants and might not have much money, etc. Don't know if the same prejudices exist in counties with less immigration. Basically, being blunt, lots of welsh language primaries are often VERY white (and not 'Eastern European' backgrounds white). Obviously this isn't a factor for most parents but some definitely consider it, even if subconsciously...

'At least it's not a Catholic school.'

What exactly is that supposed to mean?
And how is it relevant to the OP?

It shows that there's now a little bit of choice in the Irish school system

Ds went to gaelscoil primary and secondary. Did v well. Both schools were great in terms of atmosphere, attitudes etc. Now in college and found no difficulties in moving to education thru English.

Re Parent Teacher meetings, in our experience teachers happy to conduct in English or Irish. Ours were always in English.

I'm a primary school teacher in Ireland and I wouldn't choose an Irish medium education for my children personally even though I have a huge grà for the language and speak it fluently.
I teach near a popular excellent gaelscoil and we get a lot of children who transfer to us around 2 Nd class. They have often been diagnosed with dyslexia at this age and would have received an Irish exemption in an English medium school. Because English phonics and reading is delayed in gaelscoileanna they are often diagnosed later
Also there is a lack of gaelcholaiste places therefore many children must transfer to an English secondary school and can struggle with maths terminology etc.
Huge admiration for teachers that worked in them but it wouldn't be for me.

I went to Welsh medium school for primary and part of secondary. My parents were not welsh speaking. It was really difficult at times. Friends in same position as me definitely did less well at GCSEs than welsh first language speakers. However this was a long time ago and I suspect the non first language kids are better supported

I've been told if you don't speak Irish don't bother. Apparently all the Gaeilgeoirs will look down on you.

No idea if it's true tbh.

Don't speak Irish at home that should read.

It's a valid choice for many. However some dyslexics can find it difficult to cope. A friend's child went to one that believed immersion for the first year so they learned no English reading at all. It very much affected her DC's phonics who had to leave for English language school a few years later. I can only speak for Irish - the spelling and grammar is fiendishly difficult for a dyslexic especially one who doesn't speak the language at home.

We’re English living in Wales (I’ve been here all my adult life) and DS4 was born here. The county we live in is first language welsh for all schools, so didn’t have a choice, but I think it’s an amazing opportunity. If he decides to stay here for his adult life, then his job opportunities are increased.

My kids are in GME in Scotland. If we don't educate our children in our language it will die.

You have to hold your nerve though because bilingual children take longer to get to fluency in reading and writing and that's unsettling. There can be issues with dyslexia or literacy for some kids and depending on the school so that's worth watching.

In general though there's a fair bit of support. In Scotland we have e-sgoil, gaelic4parents and other online sources. I imagine there are similar things in Ireland.

Can you speak to parents from the school you are considering and ask for their experiences?

Re don’t bother applying if you don’t speak Irish at home. I believe this is true for some very oversubscribed schools in Dublin. But not true for most of the country.
About half the children from our Gaelscoil moved to English speaking secondary schools and thrived. So much new terminology introduced in all subjects in secondary, regardless of whether the kids went to Irish or English speaking Primary schools.
I can only speak of my experience at one Gaelscoil. My girls had access to resource hours that they would not have received at an English speaking school. Both were quite high achievers who struggled with reading and spelling. Dd1 picked up in 1st class, Dd2 picked up in Sr Infants. I don’t believe they would have got the resource hours in an English speaking school, because there would be much more competition for resource hours. The early intervention made such a difference to them, but as I say, all I can say is that holds true for our school, no idea if it holds true for most Gaelscoileanna.

I will mention that the resource hours focused on English reading and spelling. DD2 made good progress by secondary school in English spelling. Her Irish spelling is still poor and she received a grammar and spelling waiver for Junior Cert. It has not held her back. However she is on the mild end of dsylexia.

my uncle had to do his schooling all in irish, and he resented it, said it held him back, as they did not live in an irish-speaking area.
he would have been happy to learn some of the language, and poems etc, but having to do all the subjects in it, he hated. he felt his potential was subjugated to a political ideology.
there was no choice. that's how the school was. had to go to school.

maybe it is more likely to suit the more naturally academic child ?
when you think how some struggle with basic education in their own language.

I've worked in Gaelscoileanna before.

Advantages:

• extra Leaving Cert points for sitting exam in Irish
• general leg-up in Irish for secondary
• English and Maths should be fine but will vary school to school. In my current school we get transfers from one Gaelscoil and I notice that their English is extremely weak across the board. But in my past school, English and Maths would've been on par with my current school. So it will vary.

These schools are quite trendy now. Personally from working in one, I got the vibe that certain parents saw Gaelscoil as a kind of private school without the fees - we'd have fewer children with additional needs, children from tough backgrounds or children of immigrant parents. So I feel there is some snobbery at play, yes. But that's anecdotal from one school.

SionnachRua i think you hit the nail on the head regarding the demographic... To be honest we're only contemplating sending our dd as it's got a huge wait list, dd received an offer & it's apparently the very best school in the area..

Take the whole 'best school in the area' thing with a huge pinch of salt. If you don't like it for whatever reason, then it's not the best school for you. I know a lot of the Dublin schools and while there are some I definitely tell people to avoid, there's not a huge difference between most.

I would put a lot of that long wait list down to Gaelscoileanna being trendy atm. Plus if you're Dublin based, a lot of schools are oversubscribed anyway. If time is tight, you could pay the deposit and think it over for a couple of weeks? I don't know if that would be financially feasible for you.

Our DD is in Welsh medium and we are only English speaking at home. She’s doing fine so far. Really enjoying it. It’s a lovely little school with very small class sizes and it feeds to the best high school in the area.

Echoing what a previous poster said about Welsh medium schools being seen as more middle class. It’s very true. I describe it to my English friends as it being similar to enrolling your child in a Church school. Not because you are religious but because it’s ‘naicer’

My DS started reception at a Welsh medium school in September. I speak a small amount of Welsh but DH speaks none. I wanted Welsh medium due to the benefits of bilingualism for the brain.

DS is very happy at the school, he is taking longer to learn to read and write than his friends in English medium schools but that is because he is learning in a new language. He will catch up. His maths is completely unaffected.