Is this fair? School marks/SN child

[SchoolMarks]

DS(11) ASD, dyspraxia, learning delay ~ 2 years, adhd tendencies. School complained recently as they sent work home as he hadn't completed it in class and we corrected it. He had to answer questions about a hobby with a view to making a poster and presenting it to the class. We made DS complete the questions, corrected spelling and told him in his next lesson he should copy the corrected answers into his book. Then he finished the poster at home, as he has problems writing, I left him use the computer. He typed everything in and then I showed him how to add a couple of photos. The teacher has taken issue because it is unfair his work was corrected before the poster was made, and the other kids' work wasn't corrected. Clearly, If he had been left to do the work in school, it would never have been completed and he would get 0.

She has suggested that for the subjects where he doesn't have an special learning plan (like he has for maths, because of dyscalculia) that any work he completes by himself he will get a sticker.

For any work he completes with help he will get a stamp. This will include help from her, his 1:1 TA; I suppose this also means an extra explanation or if she has to remind him to get on with it. Also presumably any homework because even if he doesn't complete it alone I doubt she would believe it ( works better at home).

So his end of year marks will be calculated from test marks, plus the stickered and stamped work, but heavily weighted in favour of the stickered work which he has not completed entirely alone.

By doing it this way, DS will not be at an advantage [hollow laugh] over the children who have no support at home and his marks will reflect an adequate picture of his school attainment.

YABU this is fair
YANBU this is not fair and you can help speechless me draft a reply.

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Does he have an EHCP? Sounds like the teacher is trying to roll back the support in the EHCP

You child has that support because he needs it to be able to operate on an equivalent level to his peers. If he has an EHCP he has a legal right to that. The teacher should not be undermining that.

On the other hand support given should be clearly noted. Eg reader and scribe, prompting, scribed etc

The mark should still be comparable to other children without support. They dont have the support because they dont need it.

I'd be fuming

No, that’s not what an EHCP does. The outcomes on an EHCP are personal targets that are considered achievable for that student. So, for example, a child in Y3 might have an end of Key Stage reading outcome that says ‘Johnny will independently read books with a reading age of 6yrs by end of KS2”. In Maths, it might be “Johnny will be able to add and subtract 3 digit numbers using a formal written method by the end of KS2”. It may have an outcome of “Johnny will independently complete 5 learning tasks daily by the end of KS2”. The support outlined on the EHCP will be used to meet that outcome.

OP, the whole point of an EHCP, as I’m sure you know, is to support a child to achieve as much independently as they are capable of.

@SchoolMarks

DS(11) ASD, dyspraxia, learning delay ~ 2 years, adhd tendencies. School complained recently as they sent work home as he hadn't completed it in class and we corrected it. He had to answer questions about a hobby with a view to making a poster and presenting it to the class. We made DS complete the questions, corrected spelling and told him in his next lesson he should copy the corrected answers into his book. Then he finished the poster at home, as he has problems writing, I left him use the computer. He typed everything in and then I showed him how to add a couple of photos. The teacher has taken issue because it is unfair his work was corrected before the poster was made, and the other kids' work wasn't corrected. Clearly, If he had been left to do the work in school, it would never have been completed and he would get 0.

She has suggested that for the subjects where he doesn't have an special learning plan (like he has for maths, because of dyscalculia) that any work he completes by himself he will get a sticker.

For any work he completes with help he will get a stamp. This will include help from her, his 1:1 TA; I suppose this also means an extra explanation or if she has to remind him to get on with it. Also presumably any homework because even if he doesn't complete it alone I doubt she would believe it ( works better at home).

So his end of year marks will be calculated from test marks, plus the stickered and stamped work, but heavily weighted in favour of the stickered work which he has not completed entirely alone.

By doing it this way, DS will not be at an advantage [hollow laugh] over the children who have no support at home and his marks will reflect an adequate picture of his school attainment.

YABU this is fair
YANBU this is not fair and you can help speechless me draft a reply.

I suppose it helps them monitor his progress more accurately.

So they don't mistakenly think he's doing better than he really is because of external help. So don't give him the targeted support he would need

Unless it's a test the school is being unreasonable. The point of work is LEARNING not testing. What is he learning if you leave him alone with a piece of work and he can't do it? Why isn't the teacher differentiating the work down to his level so he can complete it independently? That is the actual answer to the problem and it's part of my her job.

Hi [teacher]
Thanks for your input. However, I think a more appropriate resolution would be for you to differentiate the learning so he can learn from it because at present it is not within his zone of proximal development (the area between where he is now and what he is capable of learning next).

The learning cycle should include a phase where the child's work is assessed (either peer assessed or teacher assessed). This should then be returned to the student with comments about how they can improve their work to achieve the outcome for the piece of work. OfSTED is very specific that this is something all schools should be working towards to help students become confident, independent learners.

Therefore, each piece of work should have an outcome so we know what we are working towards, and each piece of work should have room for improvement, which we can discuss with him as parents since we are taking homeschooling very seriously.

I propose instead of marking him down (and making him feel like it is pointless asking for help when stuck) a better way to make him an independent learner would be for him to do his first attempt in one colour pen then make improvements based on feedback in another colour of pen, so you as the teacher can see what he originally did and what he learned through completing this piece of work.

Please let me know if you would like links to the related pedagogical concepts (although I'm sure you've already covered them in your teaching qualification).
All the best,
SchoolMarks

If this stuff isn't being done, I'd be a nuisance to the school and copy in the headteacher so she knows the teacher isn't doing her job. I think I'm probably being a terrible backseat driver but hopefully some of this might help.

I don't know any school that would ecen consider giving a mark on a poster about hobbies.

Taking it further, I don't know any primary school that gives marks for any work.

But of course, assessment of a pupil's ability must be an assessment of what they can do without support, though with any adaptations for their special needs.

You need to have a proper conversation about DS learning plan and how things are being done in school as two things stick out:

• You appear to have misunderstood how assessment is done at primary school
• You have suggested that DS regularly fails to complete any work in class. This needs addressing and his adaptations need adjusting as they're not working.

Just a thought, and i may be wrong, but are they trying to steer it so that they can secure funding for support for your child next year? He has a 1to1 t.a at the moment? Has this been confirmed for his entire school career?

I do think its unfair to penalise him though for his work at home, where he was helped(slightly) by you. If i was sending home work, i would have expected parental support. Its just natural you would offer support if needed, surely.

Alternatively, at the school i work at, the children "green pen" over their original work, so you can see where there has been adult support.

@notfabulousdarling

The last paragraph in your suggested letter is disgustingly passive aggressive. The whole thing is disgusting. OP, I really suggest you don't send a letter like this.

As a primary school teacher, I think it may be possible you've misunderstood the teacher OP.
We don't give grades to individual pieces of work. As a PP explained, we assess work formatively, which means we use it to decide what and how to teach next. At the end of terms, we do give a summative judgement so that we can assess overall progress, make sure children are on track and, at the end of year, to inform their new teacher about their ability level.
This summative judgement is always heavily skewed to what they can do independently, with reasonable adjustments like a quiet space or extra time, being read the questions etc. But not with adult involvement in their actual work or answers, for example rewording the question or correcting spellings. This assessment of what they can do independently is really important to know if they're making progress, it's not meant to make anyone feel bad.
So the teacher here I think is just keeping a record with her stamping and stickering of what support your child has had, so she can make an accurate judgement as to what they can do independently at assessment time.

The only consequence they have come up with is to send it home. They asked me how I get him to do it and I’m pretty certain it’s partly because he knows I expect him to do it. At school, they don’t expect him to do anything and are pleased when he does something. I’m a “this is your work, no screen time till it’s done. Nope, not discussing it.” kind of homeschooling mum 🤣

I would be seriously fucked off at the school about this. He isn't the first child to go there with additional needs and won't be the last, their attitude is simply not good enough.

I would think the fact he can do it home is probably a reflection on your ability to explain it in a way he understands.

I'd use that as a way to make sure he's getting the right inputs.

My ds has asd and it was recommended to use use meta cognitive thinking techniques and visuals to support this.

When explained and used the work he competed was like it was from a different child!

@Soontobe60 “ No, that’s not what an EHCP does. The outcomes on an EHCP are personal targets that are considered achievable for that student. So, for example, a child in Y3 might have an end of Key Stage reading outcome that says ‘Johnny will independently read books with a reading age of 6yrs by end of KS2”.
In Maths, it might be “Johnny will be able to add and subtract 3 digit numbers using a formal written method by the end of KS2”.
It may have an outcome of “Johnny will independently complete 5 learning tasks daily by the end of KS2”. The support outlined on the EHCP will be used to meet that outcome.”

No I’m sorry to correct job here but that’s a common mistake you’ve made and you’re wrong.

It works like this:
Section B details the child’s needs and barriers to education.

Section F is the provision required to meet those needs, and must be specific and quantified.

Section E is outcomes, and they are defined in the SENCOP as the difference that the provision makes.

So, B ~> F ~> E.

The provisions in F must correspond with each need outlined in B. Provision must NOT be matched to outcome.

The child has a legal right to a suitable education which should aim to allow them to fulfill their potential, hence a baseline cognitive test when the EP does their bit.

Please tell me you’re not a SENCO. I spend my
Life explaining this to SENCOs.

So @Hazelnutlatteplease you’re right.

@SchoolMarks this isn’t bang on topic but my DD has a very very similar profile to your DS. This past week we have discovered an app called SnapType and I really wanted you to know about it if you don’t already:
techcrunch.com/2017/11/13/snaptype-makes-it-easy-for-kids-with-learning-disabilities-to-do-their-homework/

@NotFabulousDarling

Hi [teacher] Thanks for your input. However, I think a more appropriate resolution would be for you to differentiate the learning so he can learn from it because at present it is not within his zone of proximal development (the area between where he is now and what he is capable of learning next).

The learning cycle should include a phase where the child's work is assessed (either peer assessed or teacher assessed). This should then be returned to the student with comments about how they can improve their work to achieve the outcome for the piece of work. OfSTED is very specific that this is something all schools should be working towards to help students become confident, independent learners.

Therefore, each piece of work should have an outcome so we know what we are working towards, and each piece of work should have room for improvement, which we can discuss with him as parents since we are taking homeschooling very seriously.

I propose instead of marking him down (and making him feel like it is pointless asking for help when stuck) a better way to make him an independent learner would be for him to do his first attempt in one colour pen then make improvements based on feedback in another colour of pen, so you as the teacher can see what he originally did and what he learned through completing this piece of work.

Please let me know if you would like links to the related pedagogical concepts (although I'm sure you've already covered them in your teaching qualification).
All the best,
SchoolMarks

If this stuff isn't being done, I'd be a nuisance to the school and copy in the headteacher so she knows the teacher isn't doing her job. I think I'm probably being a terrible backseat driver but hopefully some of this might help.

What a patronising load of crap. You really think you are much more educated and expert about teaching than actual teachers, don’t you? OP - please ignore this.

Hi OP,

Since marks aren't normally given for work in primary (and children aren't given a 'grade' at the end of the year like in GCSE) could it be that the teacher is just trying to work out what he can achieve independently, and what he can achieve with help, to be able to give an appropriate 'handover' to the teacher that has him next year so they know what his independent and 'with help' baselines are?

To me it might do him a disservice for him to move into the next year with the teacher assuming he can work to X standard independently, if he actually needs extra help with that? It might help to ensure he continues to get the extra help (or even to support an application for even more help) having an accurate impression of the difference between his independent and with help work.

I wouldn't focus on him achieving a grade at this age- but maybe talk to him about what he thinks might help him complete or attempt work in school, and then relay this to the teacher?

No, that’s not what an EHCP does. The outcomes on an EHCP are personal targets that are considered achievable for that student.

Actually its exactly what an EHCP does.

^Under paragraph 9.2 of the “Special educational needs and disability code of practice: 0 to 25 years“, the assessment and EHCP, if granted, should:....
specify the provision required and how education, health and care services will work together to meet the child or young person’s needs and support the achievement of the agreed outcomes.^ child law here

You do thrash out the provision the child needs on section F, but actually we're going to withdraw it all to assess outcomes.

The provision in section F is legally enforceable. At all points in a childs education.

I really hope you don't work in SEN

Sorry typo

You don't thrash out the provision the child needs on section F, but decide actually we're going to withdraw it all to assess outcomes.

They are defo the words of a SENCO! Or worse a SENofficer.

I always annotated DD2's work with the amount of help she had been given. E.g. 'DD2 read/wrote independently but needed help to understand the question' or 'DD2 had help with spellings', etc.

At primary school, the teachers used to use 'I' (independent) and 'S' (supported) codes on their work.

It's fairly commonplace to have 'Independent' and 'Supported' stamps on work for children who generally need support. Supported work is used in assessment, but they won't be judged to have achieved a given learning objective if they've been supported. That said, reminding him to get a move on/refocussing him/asking questions shouldn't count as support.

That said, reminding him to get a move on/refocussing him/asking questions shouldn't count as support.

Unless it's in the Section F provision. DS has this in so many words.

Supported work is used in assessment, but they won't be judged to have achieved a given learning objective if they've been supported

This just makes me sad. It's very wrong.

A child that has support in the exam (scribe, reader, laptop access) is still judged to have met the grade with the support. Support is about making the curriculum accessible. So why do we not offer kids with SEN the same respect at other times.

A child that has support in the exam (scribe, reader, laptop access) is still judged to have met the grade with the support. Support is about making the curriculum accessible. So why do we not offer kids with SEN the same respect at other times.

Depends what learning you're assessing. So, if the kid is learning parts of the water cycle and has successfully named them and explained them etc. verbally, then a TA
has written down what he's said, that's not support in the context of the learning, that's reasonable adaptation. The learning has still been achieved. However, if you're assessing whether he can punctuate speech and he's needed a TA to sit next to him with a cut up speech sentence and support him in working out where things go, it's not been achieved yet.

support in the context of the learning, that's reasonable adaptation

Ah semantics, same difference. It will be usually listed under support in the EHCP.

Although in the example you gave, as a parent, I'd still expect it to be noted that this was scribed. Its partly about demonstrating that the terms of the EHCP are being fulfilled and helps the ongoing justification of need

As he has learning difficulties, his work should not be compared to that of his peers in any way, but his progress should be recorded. As your son has a TA and ILPs, his special needs are known to his teacher. Everything possible should be done to help him achieve.
I have never heard that work completed at home is ever used as assessment. That would be grossly unfair as home situations are so diverse.
I taught in Australia. It may be different in the UK where testing seems to be overly important.

I am sorry for your situation. Try not to stress over assessments and make notes on any progress and successes you note. Write these down and discuss his progress with his teacher each term. Ask for the learning support person in charge and his TA to be present too. It often takes a pushy parent to get things done right.