To be shocked people think you should be tested to go back?

[messymarker]

DD has been showing me tik tok comments today of people saying that those who don’t consent to the lateral flow tests shouldn’t be allowed to return to school. I was a bit surprised by this as the government haven’t made tests mandatory, hence students (especially those who can consent themselves) have the free choice whether they want to or not.
To me it’s not selfish to refuse a test if it’s not made mandatory especially as we’ve made huge progress in vaccination and research has shown the tests are fairly inaccurate, false positives and negatives etc. You shouldn’t have to consent if you don’t believe in the tests taking place e.g. it shows they’re not fit for purpose and the gov are doing it for the sake of it!

I wouldn’t begrudge one of my students their educations (in person) if they chose not to have a test as it’s a free choice- I’d hope they’d have the sense to research and come to their own decision. I’ve consented as DM is elderly and I’ve had to bring her groceries but along with 20 million others she’s had her first dose which has proven to prevent 80% of hospitalisation risk. Obviously there are still people waiting for vaccines, even some Mumsnetters unfortunately, but our most vulnerable have had their jab.

If anything I’d be quite worried if testing was forced or the right to (true) education was removed. Everyone in this country deserves the same access to education and shouldn’t be discriminated on choice. It’s like how we’ve heard no criticism from the media on civil liberties being stripped without scrutiny in terms of lockdown etc.

AIBU to think kids who don’t want to test shouldn’t be discriminated upon and people should be barred from going in?

Why do they have to be tested in school though? Surely it should be done at home, after all it’s only a volunteer parent that oversees it not a hcp!

I don’t understand how so many people make such a fuss about a simple fairly non invasive test.

@Mumoftwoinprimary

The current figures are that about 1 in 230 people have Covid.

So I guess in an average sized secondary of 1000 kids that is 4 kids who have Covid.

About 1 in 4 is asymptomatic.

So 3 of the 4 cases are isolating at home but the 4th is sitting in geography without any idea that they have the virus.

LFT tests are apparently between 50% and 75% accurate in identifying the virus.

So if no one does the LFT then there is a 0% chance that they will identify the asymptomatic person. If everyone does it then there is between 50% and 75% chance they will identify them. If they don’t identify them then on average one infected person will probably infect 3 - 5 other people. (That is our pre Covid R rate and I suspect that even post Covid your average secondary school pupil will have a similar amount of interactions as your average pre Covid person.)

So 1000 tests means an approximately 60% chance of preventing approximately 4 cases. So 1000 tests prevents an expected 2.4 cases.

So the question is - is it worth the slight (but existent) unpleasantness of the test to 1000 people to prevent 2.4 people getting Covid?

I’ve made a ton of heroic assumptions here but that is basically the decision that needs to be made.

I think your assumptions are a little too heroic.

1. Not likely that there is an 'average' number of cases in a school. Much more likely to be an outbreak of 15+, or 0-2

1. In adults 3 in 4 are symptomatic, children have much higher numbers asymptomatic

1. Of the 75% that are symptomatic, many of those, especially in children will NOT have the symptoms you discuss, they might have a stomach upset, or a runny nose etc, and not justify a test (or as in our school, could have parents who need to work and ignore symptoms unless undeniable)

1. Secondary school students have FAR more interactions than the average person, and will be in and out of mixed classrooms

So it will be preventing far more than you suggest.
There's also the fact that doing this keeps a focus on continued physical distancing while numbers are not suppressed.

It's worth it. Not for young people with conditions that would make swabbing distressing, but for the rest of us, for now.

If it is a choice it is a choice - whether or not it is a good choice. If it is mandatory, then that's what it is. I fail to see why you would be shocked that people have opinions though. These boards are made up of little else, and your own post is an opinion.

I agree with it. They are entitled to an education, this education does not have to be in school. If they won't be tested, they can learn from home. Obviously some students can't if they have sensory difficulties but for the vast majority, a nasal swab is easy. Their brief moment of discomfort does not trump the rights of immunocompromised students to be safe in school.

I'm quite shocked how many don't want it tbo.

It's not 100%. It's better than nothing. If it slows the spread, it keeps more kids in school and reduces risk for staff.

The testing is a bit like wearing masks. A bit annoying but also a bit helpful. Worth it overall for the vast majority to do it. However, they shouldn’t ever be mandatory. We don’t deny children’s right to in school education if their parents refuse routine childhood vaccinations, and we should apply the same logic to the testing.

In our school we had 90% compliance with the testing. We had a few positives. There is need for threats or cries of “selfish” for the testing to make an impact.

But honestly why can you not take a test?

I’ve told mine the same re masks and tests that ita part of being socially responsible. They are happy too though as understand the importance of doing so and they have willingly followed the rules at every point.

I think it should have been opt out rather than opt in. Or possibly, it should have been made mandatory for all, with exceptions for those kids who can't do them for medical reasons.

I know the tests aren't entirely accurate, but they're better than nothing. I do think it's selfish not to do them, and I was glad to find that my teenage dd feels the same.

Unfortunately, making it opt in will mean that lots of kids won't do them. Many of those kids will also be the ones who aren't wearing masks, aren't following proper social distancing rules outside school. Sadly, they will put everyone at risk.

Ultimately, though, I would not want to punish children for the bad decisions of their parents, so I would not deny education to those children whose parents have not consented. I just think the whole system should have been set up in a totally different way.

My 5 year old tests every week as part of a trial we were contacted about via the nhs and particularly detecting new variants. Even at 5 years old he is sold on the important role he is playing. I'm sorry but people really need to get a grip. It's a swab up the nose and throat.

Our primary school has asked us to take up LFT twice a week from home and I'm doing it for my son. He won't enjoy the test, of course not, but there's a chance he could be asymptomatic and then pass Covid around. If I can minimise that risk for others I will do so.

Op serious question, can you recognise any of yours students who are at risk and in the CEV or CV groups?

Thought not! You’d certainly not know my 17 year old is in that category, it’s not just families at risk you see, some of the students in your class may be at risk and funnily enough they don’t have a big label around their necks

Do they not have a right to a safe education? or are they acceptable damage

You could have a silent carrier sat right next to my immunocompromised child and not know it, the only thing giving him ANY protection are lateral flow tests and masks until he is vaccinated (category 6)

If it was your child how would you feel about your opening statement?

Jesus Christ here we go again! My son 16 had had two tests this week prior to going back to school, all negative!
I would say most parents are not idiots! We do know the right and wrongs in life...give us a fucking break 😃

Of course you are right but I'm not surprised by the responses.

@Chipsahoy

My dc has an eating disorder so he won’t be having the tests. He struggles with things in his mouth. However we have not seen anyone or left house other than exercise for months and months. I don’t believe he needs to take the back to school tests anyway.

He can just do the swab up his nose though

Going off topic slightly, I am HCA working in NHS and i am amazed how many of my colleagues refuse to undertake LFT, i cannot understand why they don't so presume it cannot be compulsory in schools

I don’t really understand why anyone would refuse though. It’s literally a cotton bud type thing in your throat and nose. If you can’t cope with throat, it’s just the nose. As humans we are capable of surviving much worse

My twins can’t be tested, we absolutely would test them if we could. If they developed symptoms we would have to just isolate as there’s just no way we could test them properly.

They had to self isolate twice in January alone after close contact with positive cases and there are only 5 other children in their class / building (and 7 staff). The LFTs picked up those cases (among staff) and were then confirmed. They are not perfect but they are important.

Lateral flow tests aren't fit for purpose. That's the mistake being made to start with.

My DD's school has picked up 2 positive test results this week from the lateral flow tests they've been doing on pupils. That's 2 potentially infectious students who won't now be spreading Covid to classmates or teachers.

95% of students have come in for early tests at my school so far. We’re expecting only a handful to decline.

But it only takes one positive to wipe out a class and several teachers. That’s not sensible or fair. Why would you refuse it?

Being forced to undergo a medical procedure has been mentioned, bloody hell, it’s not like you’re having a limb removed! I understand some children might find it very distressing, so we’ll have to rely on the majority of parents consenting, but I find it hard to understand why parents would refuse when it protects your dc and those around them. Is it so you don’t risk losing income because you have to self isolate?